Author Topic: Twin spring system testing/ and install video and settings  (Read 10253 times)

Christopher

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2016, 04:16:10 AM »
Looks very promising indeed. Are you using the stock M-rod hammer or a custom made hammer?

Thanks,
Chris
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Motorhead

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2016, 08:27:59 AM »
Looks very promising indeed. Are you using the stock M-rod hammer or a custom made hammer?

Thanks,
Chris

One of my customs ... there ( Travis & Jim ) going to be making said hammers as a part for future gun builds, tho not sure about him selling just the parts ?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 08:30:57 AM by Motorhead »
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oldpro

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2016, 05:28:07 PM »
 
SOOOOOOO Ive been working for two days trying to fix the worlds loudest spring twang, Ive tried rubber coating the springs and using isolators and alignment rods and making custom hammers with delrin side walls you name it I tried it to no avail. So Today I started puting the stock parts back in slowly to see what part of the TSS was causing all the noise. After taking 1 spring out and running only the stock spring the noise changed tone and was at least half as bad. The light bulb went on and not in a good way. I degassed the gun pulled the end cap and looked into the tube NO 3D depinger!!! I forgot the dam depinger and what I thought was spring twang was just the sound of tube ping on steroids due to the very short valve cycle......12 wasted hours later I can only laugh it off....
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Monkeydad1969

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2016, 06:27:38 PM »
It happens.  With all the snow and dog chasing the squirrels away...lol.

Joe
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oldpro

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2016, 06:33:39 PM »
 Distractions thats it! It was the dog!

oldpro

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2016, 09:11:56 PM »
Ok had another run this time using a stock hammer and a modded stock valve shooting the JSB 34 grain pellets Created: 12/10/16 08:20 PM
Description: TSS 2800-1900
Notes 1: Jsb 34
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono(FT): 1.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 34.00
Temp: N/A °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 0.00
#          FPS   FT-LBS       PF
30    789      47.01    26.83   
29    791      47.24    26.89   
28    815      50.15    27.71   
27    818      49.30    27.47   
26    820      50.77    27.88   
25    827      51.64    28.12   
24    821      50.90    27.91   
23    828      49.91    27.64   
22    828      50.90    27.91   
21    832      51.64    28.12   
20    838      53.03    28.49   
19    838      53.03    28.49   
18    839      52.52    28.36   
17    841      53.41    28.59   
16    844      53.79    28.70   
15    847      52.90    28.46   
14    845      53.91    28.73   
13    832      52.27    28.29   
12    839      53.15    28.53   
11    841      53.41    28.59   
10    837      53.66    28.66   
9     838       52.02    28.22   
8     840      54.17    28.80   
7     832      52.27    28.29   
6     828      51.77    28.15   
5     829      51.89    28.19   
4     820      48.45    27.23   
3     813      49.91    27.64   
2     799      48.20    27.17   
1     797      47.96    27.10   
Average: 824.7 FPS
SD: 16.8 FPS
Min: 789 FPS
Max: 847 FPS
Spread: 58 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 825 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 09:25:56 PM by oldpro »

Monkeydad1969

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2016, 09:15:06 PM »
Now where is the vid?

Joe
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rsterne

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2016, 08:48:00 AM »
Travis, I just got an email from Harry Fuller in Australia, reminding me that he used twin counter-wound springs in his Excaliber, back in 2006.... Please refer to his posts starting at Reply #422 on page 22 of my SSG thread on the GTA.... http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=102095.420

Harry subsequently sent me some photos and I made a summary description in Reply #449 on the following page, and then posted the photos he sent in Reply #450.... You can see in that photo that he did, indeed, use two counter-wound springs.... Harry agreed with my assessment of how the system worked in Reply # 468.... My main concern at the time was to compare the functioning of my SSG to what Harry had done previously, and we concluded that while my SSG physically stopped the springs forward movement, his system worked somewhat differently, using the light spring (or indeed a series of O-rings) to withdraw the hammer from the valve stem, with all the parts operating within the "cage" used in the Excaliber....

As you can well understand, I was focused on the differences between my SSG and Harry's modifications to his Excaliber.... When you announced your twin-spring system, I never connected the dots back to Harry's use of two counter-wound springs, and for that I apologize to him.... I don't see a separate adjustment for the preload on the two springs in Harry's system, but perhaps that was also missed, I simply don't know all the details of how his system functions....

Once again, airguns are improved, and products created, by a gradual process, sometimes interrupted by decades, and often unknown to the person doing what to him is "new" work.... IMO, as long as we don't copy an idea directly for profit, and acknowledge similarities to other previous ideas when they are brought to our attention, it should all be chalked up to progress.... I hope that Harry understands and accepts my explanation of not posting before about his use of dual counter-wound springs in his Excaliber.... They were part of a system where I was looking at the overall function rather than the details.... Of course I had nothing to do with Travis' development of the TSS anyway (other than suggesting counter-wound springs to avoid binding), but I was neglectful of mentioning Harry when the subject of dual counter-wound springs arose.... and for that I apologize....

Further details of Harry's work on his Excaliber can be found at a link he sent me, which I have just viewed for the first time myself.... http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1158820290 .... Harry comments on the reasons for using the very light, counterwound spring, and I see no mention of separate adjustability.... so perhaps that is Travis' main achievement....  8)

Bob
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 09:23:15 AM by rsterne »
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oldpro

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2016, 09:31:22 AM »
 After reading and looking at all the pics I still cant tell if hes using the springs in a slack or are they under compression like a SSG?

rsterne

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2016, 10:01:25 AM »
As I understand it, he had (at least) three different versions, a short spring, a long spring (preloaded) and one with O-rings.... I don't know which one he settled on, but it is clear he used dual, concentric, counterwound springs a decade ago.... You have added separate, external adjustment, so I just see it as one more example of progress.... IMO all that is needed is referencing Harry for what he did.... using two, concentric, counterwound hammer springs in a PCP in 2006.... Even though you didn't get your idea from his, and it's a case of parallel (independent) development.... it just seems the correct thing to do, IMO....

Bob
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oldpro

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2016, 10:13:40 AM »
 I couldnt agree more Bob and I will Immediately contact Harry and ask If I can use some or part of his original Idea. Credit where credit is due as always.

oldpro

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2016, 01:51:26 PM »
Ok I've figured out some of the mysteries of the TSS and ran the following string with one spring only in a slack state. It appears the hammer hitting a spring wall or spring under no compression with the hammer off the valve poppet is the key but without the second spring there is limited adjustments. This took just the right spring and reg pressure to work and for a 12" barrel this is stellar. 13ci tank shot from 3k to 2000psi. I do believe it would be better and more efficient with two counter wound springs.
Description: Warp 25
Notes 1: 12" barrel Jsb 25.4
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono(FT): 1.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 25.40
Temp: N/A °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 0.00
#          FPS   FT-LBS       PF
34    772      33.62    19.61   
33    780      34.32    19.81   
32    779      34.23    19.79   
31    793      35.47    20.14   
30    793      35.47    20.14   
29    795      35.65    20.19   
28    795      35.65    20.19   
27    804      36.46    20.42   
26    793      35.47    20.14   
25    785      34.76    19.94   
24    791      35.29    20.09   
23    796      35.74    20.22   
22    778      34.14    19.76   
21    790      35.20    20.07   
20    794      35.56    20.17   
19    793      35.47    20.14   
18    787      34.94    19.99   
17    781      34.41    19.84   
16    792      35.38    20.12   
15    788      35.03    20.02   
14    784      34.67    19.91   
13    788      35.03    20.02   
12    789      35.12    20.04   
11    784      34.67    19.91   
10    803      36.37    20.40   
9     790      35.20    20.07   
8     787      34.94    19.99   
7     786      34.85    19.96   
6     793      35.47    20.14   
5     790      35.20    20.07   
4     784      34.67    19.91   
3     785      34.76    19.94   
2     782      34.50    19.86   
1     778      34.14    19.76   
Average: 788.3 FPS
SD: 7.0 FPS
Min: 772 FPS
Max: 804 FPS
Spread: 32 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 788 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 01:57:03 PM by oldpro »

bnowlin

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2016, 02:47:04 PM »
Gosh I always thought everything was backward down under any way.
Bobn

oldpro

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2017, 05:52:00 PM »
 The first 20 are in the mail and the next 20 are started so here we go. Cant wait to see some tunes come in.

oldpro

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Re: Twin spring system testing
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2017, 10:23:02 PM »
Heres the install video and adjusting. Sorry I was having all kinds of problems with auto focus but I did my best. http://www.wickedairrifles.com/installation-instructions.html