The AirGun Guild

General Category => OFF TOPIC => Topic started by: kkarmical on March 11, 2020, 09:58:43 AM

Title: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: kkarmical on March 11, 2020, 09:58:43 AM

Well I am not running around yelling the sky is falling, or buying provisions to shelter in place for 6 months.
But ever since the first group of people were quarantined on Travis AF base, I have been keeping an eye on local developments.
So when the first person who made if off of the base, then went into city's near my home, later comes up with the the virus, (wtg Airforce..lol) it wasn't that big of a surprise to me, I kind of knew it was just a matter of time.
It seems like many online that downplay this virus as being overhyped and media driven hysteria, don't really have any skin in the game, and do not live in an area with active positive diagnosis of this virus, or exposure to it.

But back to my original question, has this changed your life any?

Personally I plan on not attending sports activities, as these have always been  from a germ perspective a great mixing pot.  Sucks cause baseball season is coming up, but just not worth the risk for me.
Kid is doing independent studies at home at least until testing can be done, because it makes me wonder just how many people that could have been exposed are not being tested.  And it didn't help that the school district mistakenly sent an email to parents talking about acceptable #'s that would warrant school closures.
Figure at very least test that is less than $3K, cause I know they're not giving me that one at the VA😄.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Steelhead on March 11, 2020, 03:21:15 PM
Traffic is better since some big businesses are closed. Big companies like Kaiser Permanente have ceased group meetings and any non-urgent travel. My sister-in-law sells swag at festivals, concerts, etc. and it's really starting to hit her. All of these events are being cancelled.

I cringed a little when the head dude of the Pacific Airgun Expo said something like 'don't be afraid of the flu' or something to that effect. However, I've stuck my foot in my insensitive mouth a million times and I'm sure I'll do it again before week's end. It might be the one time in recent history where American men run from an online ad that says 'Warm Asian Girl'. Dammit! I didn't even make it to the end of the post, let alone the week. Insert foot.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on March 11, 2020, 04:47:49 PM
My daughter’s high school marching band has prepared for a year to fly this Friday to New York City. They were going to March in the St Patrick’s Day Parade, play a symphonic show, and go to a broadway musical. Canceled due to CoronaVirus.

Meanwhile band director and his assistant teacher packed up the huge 5th wheel trailer and have made it all the way to Tennessee.  They have turned around.

Eleanor is upset, as are many of her classmates.

Ya’ll stay safe!

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on March 11, 2020, 05:34:51 PM
With the announcement of it being declared a Pandemic, my wife and I just closed the Motel for the remainder of the month.... We will re-evaluate then....

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: bnowlin on March 11, 2020, 05:43:28 PM
They have shut down the Houston Livestock and Rodeo.   A major undertaking.  Poor kids at the livestock show.
Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Steelhead on March 11, 2020, 06:44:07 PM
Heard that Golden State Warriors games are to be played in front of empty stadium. I think I have/had 'work tunnel vision' right now and my current event attention is lacking. Just hearing the above-mentioned stuff brings it a little closer to home.   

I've been somewhat naïve on the more far-reaching aspects of it.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: bnowlin on March 11, 2020, 06:56:04 PM
Well they are talking about all NBA.  Now they have included NCAA tourneys etc.
Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on March 12, 2020, 05:45:52 AM
What puzzles me, is this specific virus has been with us for many years—we've only learned to recognize it. This from Google (Feb 7, 2020):

The CDC predicts that at least 12,000 Americans will die from the flu in any given year. As many as 61,000 people died in the 2017-2018 flu season, and 45 million were infected.

So the question remains, why is this one (Covid-19) a pandemic?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on March 12, 2020, 06:01:53 AM
What puzzles me, is this specific virus has been with us for many years—we've only learned to recognize it. This from Google (Feb 7, 2020):

The CDC predicts that at least 12,000 Americans will die from the flu in any given year. As many as 61,000 people died in the 2017-2018 flu season, and 45 million were infected.

So the question remains, why is this one (Covid-19) a pandemic?

Let me project MY "conspiracy" theory.  1) Maybe, MAYBE this is a trial balloon "pandemic" thrust upon the world community by the ChiComs to access their ability to develop a Pathogenic Weapon to control population? 2) Maybe, MAYBE this Virus COVID19 is already genetically altered to attack and kill a certain segment of the world population, i.e. a Racist biological weapon.
Maybe, MAYBE I watch to much sciFi.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on March 12, 2020, 09:07:34 AM
*shocked look*….

yeah, but maybe, MAYBE because it's made in China it won't last long....  ::)

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on March 12, 2020, 09:37:10 AM
The potential of a 3.4%+ fatality rate of the CoronaVirus is what is making governments and pandemic experts extremely worried.  Flu death rate is something in the 0.1 % range.

This is the worry.

If you are over 60, and have pre-existing disease, such as asthma and other respiratory disease, heart disease, auto-immune disease, or suppressed immune system due to chemo therapy, etc, then you are high risk to not surviving Corona Virus.

Corona Virus is not the Flu.

It appears that some governments are purposely suppressing the numbers of the virus for political reasons. This is potentially going to make the situation worse than it is since the number of tests being given are also being suppressed. I fear the numbers are not at all exaggerated, rather they are much lower than they really are.

Conspiracy theories be damned.

By the way, the very long thread over at the GTA on the CoronaVirus is a total cluster muffin. I had two posts edited Censored for Political Content even though they were not political and only had video of CDC testimony. In my opinion, the moderation is heavy handed, counter productive and driving people away. Crying shame.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Bullfrog on March 12, 2020, 09:55:34 AM
I feel like the world reaction is overkill. Its fretting over something we have little control over. Panicking to the point of breaking the world economy will do more damage than the virus.

At any time the nukes might launch and vaporize a lot more than 3% of us. I have no control over it. So no reason to fret over it. Just live life with common sense.

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on March 12, 2020, 05:45:34 PM
The potential of a 3.4%+ fatality rate of the CoronaVirus is what is making governments and pandemic experts extremely worried.  Flu death rate is something in the 0.1 % range.

This is the worry.

If you are over 60, and have pre-existing disease, such as asthma and other respiratory disease, heart disease, auto-immune disease, or suppressed immune system due to chemo therapy, etc, then you are high risk to not surviving Corona Virus.

Corona Virus is not the Flu.

It appears that some governments are purposely suppressing the numbers of the virus for political reasons. This is potentially going to make the situation worse than it is since the number of tests being given are also being suppressed. I fear the numbers are not at all exaggerated, rather they are much lower than they really are.

Conspiracy theories be damned.

By the way, the very long thread over at the GTA on the CoronaVirus is a total cluster muffin. I had two posts edited Censored for Political Content even though they were not political and only had video of CDC testimony. In my opinion, the moderation is heavy handed, counter productive and driving people away. Crying shame.

IMO the death rate is VERY inaccurate precisely because the numbers of infected ARE under reported .  Once the bean counters get it all figured out the death rate should be in the tenths of a percent. 
Bullfrog has a simple, sane, and IMO best response.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: kkarmical on March 16, 2020, 11:41:35 PM
I feel like the world reaction is overkill. Its fretting over something we have little control over. Panicking to the point of breaking the world economy will do more damage than the virus.

At any time the nukes might launch and vaporize a lot more than 3% of us. I have no control over it. So no reason to fret over it. Just live life with common sense.

I believe you're right to a degree.  But the real problem is that for the most part people that live in populated areas cannot understand what common sense is any more.

Given what this virus is, no one should have to be shown how to wash their goddamn hands and not to be such  nasty people.  I knew we were screwed once crap like this started making headlines.
It shouldn't take a real genius for themselves to just take a step back and avoid some of the germ mixers like concerts, bars, sporting events and such.
But unfortunately most people would still continue living their lives as if it's all good.
So much has changed in the past week around me.  People are overreacting imo, but that is the only way to raise the common sense bar to a percentage were its acceptable.
People are stockpiling water and all paper products, napkins paper towels and toilet paper and each one I talk with doesn't really know why, they're just doing it.

Some of my hippie friends were asking me about hunting and fishing today, not that they would ever do either, but just having that conversation was stimulating.

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Steelhead on March 17, 2020, 05:59:48 AM
Not fun times, that's for sure. Who can believe anything that's being reported anyway? If you listen to CNN it's one thing, FOX it's another, and BBC another still. Like everything else politicians view good fortune and tragedy as avenues to advance their agenda. Combined with most people's tendencies to exhibit flock mentality and you have a bizarre reactions to events like this.

I've been experiencing some of the front line factors first hand; I have a brother and a mother who are both hospitalized right now: the former with a life-threatening colon infection and the latter with COPD and congestive heart failure. Neither can be visited right now and all medical updates/communication is done through skype. The other thing is that my girlfriend works for a major medical facility and I'm getting REAL updates from the doctors, hospitals, and the insider stuff (if there is such a thing)  Due to the virulence of the virus a huge sector of the population will be infected if not somehow contained. I don't have the figures but a death toll of a fraction of a percent on the world population would be overwhelming. The medical source that I have states that the death toll is roughly 3 percent. Based on 327 million people in the US that number could be very high.

To contradict Bullfrog, we do have some control over it. We can take simple measures to avoid spread by limiting travel, personal contact, and extra attention to sanitation. I'm a healthy guy, but others in my family and community are not. I care about my fellow man and if I can do my part to stave off infection for someone else I will do so, especially when preventative measures are easy to employ. To be fair, I'm in total agreement with Bullfrog with folk's overreacting. It's absolutely justifiable to be concerned, but stupid to hoard and/or be careless and self centered. Bottom line is that most people are sheep and there are very few shepherds. That's just a sociological fact.

This is not a political thing...the Dem's and Rep's did not start the virus, they won't cure it, and it sickens me that politicians and zealots use this as a platform to further their corrupted agendas. Let's all please strive to find ways to work together FOR ONCE and leave the bullshit behind. This is very serious.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Shifty99 on March 17, 2020, 07:42:34 AM
Well said and I agree!!!!!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on March 17, 2020, 11:42:37 AM
Well said Kevin.

If we all can get beyond the tips of our noses we will realize that we all have a huge stake in protecting ourselves, our friends, co-workers and loved ones. Any of us can carry the virus and not know it, and quietly pass it on to the most vulnerable.

Wash your hands, cover your mouth if coughing or sneezing, wash hands, rinse, repeat.

I say it behooves us to be extremely cautious.

Good luck to your Mom and Brother!

Not fun times, that's for sure. Who can believe anything that's being reported anyway? If you listen to CNN it's one thing, FOX it's another, and BBC another still. Like everything else politicians view good fortune and tragedy as avenues to advance their agenda. Combined with most people's tendencies to exhibit flock mentality and you have a bizarre reactions to events like this.

I've been experiencing some of the front line factors first hand; I have a brother and a mother who are both hospitalized right now: the former with a life-threatening colon infection and the latter with COPD and congestive heart failure. Neither can be visited right now and all medical updates/communication is done through skype. The other thing is that my girlfriend works for a major medical facility and I'm getting REAL updates from the doctors, hospitals, and the insider stuff (if there is such a thing)  Due to the virulence of the virus a huge sector of the population will be infected if not somehow contained. I don't have the figures but a death toll of a fraction of a percent on the world population would be overwhelming. The medical source that I have states that the death toll is roughly 3 percent. Based on 327 million people in the US that number could be very high.

To contradict Bullfrog, we do have some control over it. We can take simple measures to avoid spread by limiting travel, personal contact, and extra attention to sanitation. I'm a healthy guy, but others in my family and community are not. I care about my fellow man and if I can do my part to stave off infection for someone else I will do so, especially when preventative measures are easy to employ. To be fair, I'm in total agreement with Bullfrog with folk's overreacting. It's absolutely justifiable to be concerned, but stupid to hoard and/or be careless and self centered. Bottom line is that most people are sheep and there are very good shepherds. That's just a sociological fact.

This is not a political thing...the Dem's and Rep's did not start the virus, they won't cure it, and it sickens me that politicians and zealots use this as a platform to further their corrupted agendas. Let's all please strive to find ways to work together FOR ONCE and leave the bullshit behind. This is very serious.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on March 17, 2020, 11:43:32 AM
I'm trying not to panic, so I built myself a room.

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: FL Rat Hunter on March 17, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
They told everyone in our Agency to stay home and telework, the VPN couldn't handle the increased traffic and crashed, so now we're all dead in the water!  Someone sure didn't think that one through...
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on March 17, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
One thing is for sure, this is all new and we’re all working our way through it. I think we just need to be patient, be kind and help each other when and where we can.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on March 17, 2020, 01:27:33 PM
Steve! I agree! So....

Let's all got air gunning!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Steelhead on March 17, 2020, 03:29:45 PM
I'm out of toilet paper
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on March 17, 2020, 07:23:21 PM
Just got real in our little community today, one positive and 6 others being tested.  Our community is approx. 1200 large and situated approx. 100 miles in any direction from a large community.  God help us all, nobody is going to evade this Virus.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on March 18, 2020, 06:26:59 AM
A few things to keep in mind. The RNA sequencing test used to detect Covid-19, is NOT looking specifically for Covid-19! It is looking for the SARSr-CoV. If at anytime, you got a flu shot for and/or were infected with any strain of SARSr-CoV, you will test positive! Adding to the confusion, according to the CDC, there is a 6% false positive, and a 10% false negative. Because of this, if you have symptoms of Covid-19, whether you test positive or negative, you're quarantined, and given the test more than once.

The thing I'm more worried about, are all of the fear-induced hoarding! Masks are the best example. A surgical mask WILL NOT keep you from contracting Covid-19. You literally have to digest the virus, which is why the CDC is recommending everyone wash their hands, and keep their fingers out of their mouths! And don't pick your nose! The hoarding of toilet paper is beyond comprehension. And lastly... Don't rely ONLY on alcohol-based hand sanitizers! Rather, use soap and a finger brush to get under those dirty fingernails!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on March 18, 2020, 10:58:56 AM
Excellent advise Allan.  One day at a time.  The only thing I could be accused of hoarding might be firearms. 8)
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on March 18, 2020, 06:59:10 PM
My son and daughter in law are both on duty at the base and also are working at home. Word is MPs are on the hook for call up. And retired, select job titles are to be recalled.  Hope not true but will update as soon as I can confirm. I already hoard TP , I am currently wiping with 17 year old Scott brand TP. LOL Mre,mt house, other junk to hard to recall or list, and other stuff since 1982. Vietnam taught me to ? every move the politicos did . Follow orders but stay aware. In my area we have 2 confirmed deaths from this. Can't believe people still only have a few days supplies then mass buy on day O. POP base in my tri county area is about 28000. We are waiting to hear of more.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on March 18, 2020, 07:03:17 PM
A PS has anyone read THE RED WHITE AND BLUE flu book? Can't recall the author.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Bullfrog on March 18, 2020, 07:15:38 PM
I’m still working. Officially all courthouses in Florida are closed, but because some hearings have to be had timely we’re still making court happen. Mostly for criminal defendants who are stuck in custody. Which means that if one of us gets the virus at the courthouse, we’re all exposed.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Steelhead on March 18, 2020, 08:09:15 PM
I'm working as well. I'm currently in brand new homes (tile contractor) with no other trades working in them. About as safe as I can be. We're on 'shelter in place' status with residential construction being allowed for now. Next week I'm beginning a job in an occupied house. That may not happen. Supply houses are starting to close so it may be moot.

It's a bizarre thing too because I'm working on three 'fire homes' that are rebuilds from the devastating Tubbs Fire here in Sonoma County. Driving through the literally miles of burned up neighborhoods and all of the brand new construction going on and it's like a ghost town. It feels like there's just a black cloud over everything here right now.

On the personal side I've had two close family members hospitalized with severe health issues this last week. As my brother said from his hospital bed, "Kev, so far 2020 has used absolutely ZERO lube".

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on March 18, 2020, 09:04:27 PM
We just closed the Motel until May 1.... had to phone guests and cancel their reservations for Easter weekend and the following one.... April was shaping up to be a decent month, now will have zero income, same as March....  ::)

The Canadian government is talking about coming up with some assistance for the self-employed who are closing up "non-essential" businesses to "flatten the curve" of the spread of the virus.... I'm not going to hold my breath....  >:(

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on March 18, 2020, 09:15:44 PM
Saw pictures from San Francisco today. Place looks like a ghost town. Crazy times.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on March 19, 2020, 08:51:12 AM
Interesting article:  www.townhall.com

This would be a miracle.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on March 21, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
While I don't have a cozy motel to run like Bob, I'm in a similar situation regarding income. January was the best month I've had, ever, for the flow of instruments showing up for repairs and net income. February dropped to half that, covering about 4/5 of my expenses, leaving me relieved things had gone so well in January that I could pay the bills. March so far I've earned 1/4 what I did in January. Got one little job in today which ought to pay about $150, but no other musicians are contacting me except to cancel appointments. I'm not even close to paying my monthly tax installment nor the phone bill, never mind rent.

I'd love to be working for income but instead have turned to longer term restoration work, besides making lots of jerky and spending most of the meager income I'm getting on longer term storage foods. The freezer is well filled. Another 6lbs of beef is about to go into the dehydrator after marinating in strips for 24 hours - Steve Rinella's recipe is BRILLIANT by the way! And I'll have to have 'that talk' with my landlord next week. With any luck he'll have gotten through to RBC about deferring his mortgages. The guy owns about 45 houses and a couple of apartment blocks. Pretty sure most of his tenants are now out of work and won't be able to pay rent for April. If our ever-so-handsome Prime Minister doesn't get off his lazy millionaire backside soon and take decisive action on the economy we're going to see a storm next month. So far the Federal government website just has "mid-April" and "awaiting Royal assent" alongside all the various relief package proposals. He promised prompt financial support earlier this week. Seems to me 3 or 4 weeks isn't really going to be taken as 'prompt' by a lot of Canadians.

My family life is going just fine. My son's eagerly pursuing self-directed studies on his phone, telling us fascinating things he's learning with all this time not wasted in a frankly slow-motion school curriculum. He's a born student. My wife's still working, as she's a nurse and very committed to her patients among the poorest and most down-trodden in our society; the addicts and homeless of the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver. She's gone from being somewhat dismissive of all the fuss 6 weeks ago when I wouldn't shut up about Trudeau parading around in Africa with an emergency underway, to now showing grave concern about each shift leaving for work. It's only a matter of days before the first cases start getting reported down there... and then the poop will REALLY hit the fan. Meantime, we've got a garden to plant, already did all the pruning and digging in the compost quite a while back. Garlic is well up. Berries leafing out. Should see fig and butternut leaves any day now. Rhubarb is showing a little. If this weather keeps up we'll have a great year in our tiny backyard garden, and it seems likely we'll need it. Maybe the kiwi vine will actually fruit this time around!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on March 22, 2020, 06:08:00 AM
Rhubarb? I'm jealous! We can't grow it down here in SE New Mexico, and as far as I know, no one offers it in frozen or canned form. This may sound off post, but read this:

According to Self magazine's nutrition website — at NutritionData.self.com — rhubarb is a good source of magnesium and a very good source of dietary fiber, vitamin C, vitamin K, calcium, potassium and manganese. It is also low in saturated fat and sodium, and very low in cholesterol.

The bolded text are the nutrients the body needs to help fight off viruses!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on March 22, 2020, 09:18:53 AM
Well that's great if rhubarb helps in this fight. But I'll take it whatever it's properties nutritionally or whatever. Rhubarb is one of those foods of memory, associated with smatterings of memory from childhood, something I don't need to have more than once or twice a year but which always serves to being me comfort. In a pie with some strawberries. Cooked down to a slurry with sugar and glopped onto a waffle. Even just the odd spoonful of a well made rhubarb jam. Bonne Maman from France makes an acceptable version - most of their jams are fairly close to just right, maybe you could find a jar of that?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on March 23, 2020, 04:47:14 AM
I live in Roswell, NM! If it isn't latino or space alien related, forget about it!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: FL Rat Hunter on March 23, 2020, 05:12:09 AM
I saw this article this morning:

"Japan Is Reopening Schools:  Even virus news is flying under the radar, and this story extends much further than Japan. It turns out that individual epidemics are proving short-lived in every country. People will argue for a long time whether that’s from government intervention or not, and whether or not it is worth the economic pain. We’ll save that argument for later.

The good news that deserves focus is that we shouldn’t expect lockdowns or ‘social distancing’ to last more than a few weeks. China hasn’t seen new infections in days. South Korea has been in decline for weeks. Japan has even scheduled to reopen schools. That’s a lot of good news proving that this is a storm, not a new climate."


You probably won't see it on CNN and the real indicator the pandemic is over will be when the elusive toilet paper starts to reappear on the grocery shelves!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: kkarmical on March 23, 2020, 06:15:26 AM
I saw this article this morning:

"Japan Is Reopening Schools:  Even virus news is flying under the radar, and this story extends much further than Japan. It turns out that individual epidemics are proving short-lived in every country. People will argue for a long time whether that’s from government intervention or not, and whether or not it is worth the economic pain. We’ll save that argument for later.

The good news that deserves focus is that we shouldn’t expect lockdowns or ‘social distancing’ to last more than a few weeks. China hasn’t seen new infections in days. South Korea has been in decline for weeks. Japan has even scheduled to reopen schools. That’s a lot of good news proving that this is a storm, not a new climate."


You probably won't see it on CNN and the real indicator the pandemic is over will be when the elusive toilet paper starts to reappear on the grocery shelves!

I picked up toilet paper yesterday, only 1 package 6 double rolls not those huge Costco sized pallet sized packages, but that is all I need as I am still into my before the panic buying hit package that we're still using.

I don't trust Japan as a gauge, they'd do or say anything not to lose the Olympics..
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on March 23, 2020, 07:06:42 AM
My wife is Japanese. Last evening she spent a couple of hours going through news articles and videos from Japan and updated me on what's happening there. Seems Abe is his usually semi-useless self. He's committed to the Olympics happening, ignoring pleas from many fronts to just let it go. Japanese people are confused seeing so many in other countries not wearing masks. Masks are commonplace for the average Japanese person come flu season each year, especially the elderly, and many wear them through spring owing to pollen allergies. This, combined with the general tidiness of habits among most Japanese people, make for a nation better prepared than most to deal with a novel virus.

While it would be great news if things were actually improving generally as suggested by the above article, for which I can find no source, the fact that Japan reported no new cases yesterday should probably not be taken as meaningful. Japan's government is behaving poorly in the ways they are trying to minimize what they perceive largely to be an image problem. With their economc and demographic problems rising, the ruling conservative government is desperate to move everything back to normal. If the Olympics fail to happen, they will likely lose power in the next election. Trump seems to have made a somewhat similar realisation this past week, changing dramatically after two months of denial and pretending the virus isn't a problem so suddenly making efforts to look like a wartime president making potent and meaningful decisions. It's election time. Expect him to either escalate dramatically on the medical efforts or to use the military to lock down the country and cancel the election. Or both.

With current global morbidity at 13%, rising from 9% a week ago, this scarcely seems to be slowing down. 192 countries report infections. We're just getting started. Out shopping a few days ago I was stunned seeing the majority not even wearing masks, though the CDC test report from last Tuesday indicated airborne particles still viable to infect at 3 hours. One encouraging innovation by a study completed this past week demonstrated that a salt saturated filter layer completely arrests the virus - I will be soaking the filter layers of our home made masks in a saturated salt solution with a wetting agent to achieve thorough coverage, drying them in the food dehydrator prior to use. An interesting bit of research, showing how the re-crystalization of sodium chloride physically destroys viral integrity, basically slicing the bugs apart:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5209731/#!po=0.675676

Wishful thinking is going to get a lot of people killed. The party nonsense among Florida spring break attendees alone will spread this to millions within the coming weeks as students return to families and communities all over the USA. the patchwork uptake of real action on hygeine and distancing among most populations will likely result in tens of millions dead by mid summer. Bill Gates spelled this out simply and clearly 5 years ago in a TED talk, but tragically the world failed to heed his warning. Now we will all pay the price for government inaction.


Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on March 23, 2020, 08:21:28 AM
The sky is falling; The sky is falling.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on March 23, 2020, 09:29:08 AM
The sky is falling; The sky is falling.

Too many people in this world. Nature strikes back.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on March 23, 2020, 09:37:16 AM
The sky is falling; The sky is falling.

My guess is that by this time next month, nobody anywhere will express such nonsense, unless they're trying to be funny (and failing, hard). Is that what you're doing?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: kkarmical on March 23, 2020, 12:14:14 PM
The sky is falling; The sky is falling.

My guess is that by this time next month, nobody anywhere will express such nonsense, unless they're trying to be funny (and failing, hard). Is that what you're doing?
But it's not funny.  Funny is something like this
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on March 23, 2020, 12:28:14 PM
Well THAT'S something we can agree upon! Loved Bugs as a kid, and agreed mostly with his take on life.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on March 23, 2020, 01:35:13 PM
The sky is falling; The sky is falling.

My guess is that by this time next month, nobody anywhere will express such nonsense, unless they're trying to be funny (and failing, hard). Is that what you're doing?

Well, time indeed will tell.  This Viral "weapon" from the ChiComs is a trial balloon and just look at the world wide panic as never seen before.  I still contend the common Flu will kill far more, but because of Media bias the engineered virus from the ChiComs will do far more damage to the economy. Big bonus for the ChiComs is they get to kill off a segment of their over populated landscape.  BTW, no attempt at comedy by me, how about yourself?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on March 23, 2020, 02:05:45 PM
Nope, no jokes in what I said above about this pandemic. Guess we just have to wait and see eh? By the end of May things should be clear enough either way.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: bnowlin on March 23, 2020, 02:55:16 PM
I guess what I don't understand in this whole thing is.  If this virus came from bats then where did they get it?   ::)
Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on March 23, 2020, 03:07:52 PM
As I've read it, seems bats carry a lot of viral load all the time, but most guys don't harm them. It's the meeting between those bugs and humans and other critters (pigs or pangolins are both suggested in this case) where things get sticky.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on March 24, 2020, 12:40:14 PM
The Guard here had some units called up to transport goods around state. My son and wife are working from home. Base is about empty. SIDE NOTE -Harvard had 3 prof arrested last dec for dealing with Wuhan china 2 of the 3 were from china one was a PRA member, don't know about the other. FBI caught them attempting to take samples of this stuff back there . Had been working on this awhile. Wuhan has a PRA bio lab , And do not forget all china companies are connected to THE PRA. I only found it as a side note in a DOD news letter. Gee would china kill off their own people!! From 1960-1963 they killed about 30 million. No they wouldn't let a bio bug loose , Would they. Any way no one in my county or the direct co around had any hint of it yet. RUMORs !!!.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on March 24, 2020, 12:46:34 PM
Also on, CNN.com and NPR had a story and you can find it on the DOJ site if you dig.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on March 24, 2020, 01:02:45 PM
On the darker side of this... China's awareness of the bug (leaving original intention or lack thereof aside for the moment - I have various thoughts on this but would prefer to keep thinking about those quietly) and suppression around word being spread, this article goes into some of the dynamics in Italy:
https://uncoverdc.com/2020/03/20/why-italy/
And then there's this video distributed by a Chinese government funded news outlet, slickly made, obviously intending to tug at heartstrings and capitalize on the West's collective guilt complex:
https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/watch-chinese-government-encourages-italians-to-fight-coronavirus-racism-by-hugging-strangers/
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: sixshootertexan on March 25, 2020, 09:40:58 AM
I got my papers today so if I get stopped I won't get taking to jail. That's right I have to have papers for clearance to go to work. Am I in nazi Germany.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on March 25, 2020, 02:17:30 PM
Good short read.

https://www.wired.com/story/coronavirus-interview-larry-brilliant-smallpox-epidemiologist/
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on March 25, 2020, 02:52:43 PM
Excellent read, forwarded it to all my family....

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on March 25, 2020, 08:08:10 PM
Another awesome article... how they test for Corona Virus, and how come the South Koreans are much faster at it.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-coronavirus-tests-actually-work/
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on March 26, 2020, 08:29:39 AM
I think S. Korea, like so much of the rest of the world, when the Govt. says you will test, it's not a suggestion if you know what I mean.  S. Korea is a small country and easier to mobilize.  That said, CDC "might" have dropped the ball on this one, but we're catching up.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: 761xl on May 08, 2020, 06:49:44 AM
corona virus hasn't changed anything for me thus far , all the deaths i've seen have been through a hawke 4-12, life is good . was pulled over yesterday for driving 30 mph and failure to use turn signal. officer was freindly and wore no mask , nicely instructed me to be careful and use signals, i said thank you sir and drove away.  the only sign i've seen of corona virus is my favorite junkyard has temporarily closed, unless i get corona or get abducted by aliens i might have a 58th birthday this month . may none of you get corona and all be healthy and happy!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on May 08, 2020, 08:05:40 AM
I can assure you, that you won't be abducted by space aliens. Here in Roswell, NM at least, there are none, because the local's found out they taste just like chicken.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: 761xl on July 12, 2020, 06:34:25 AM
58 years old now and still dont own a mask. our misguided kentucky governor thinks he has authority to make us wear one, has already been stopped by american politicians in our state. dang my daystate sure does work great, life is good :), i hope everyone here is healthy happy and free, and enjoying their chosen airguns !
 
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on July 12, 2020, 08:36:41 AM
I find this really sad.... Yes, you are 100% correct, nobody can force you to wear a mask.... However, deciding not to do so is exactly the same as running a red light because it is your right to decide whether to stop or not.... After all, it's your life, right?.... Pity about those who trust others to do the right thing, and obey an "arbitrary" law.... It is my understanding that personal rights stop where they affect the rights and freedoms of others, but maybe that is just when convenient....  ???

The consequences of not wearing a mask are obvious, and not doing so shows an utter disrespect for the lives, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness of the rest of the human race.... I sincerely hope that regardless of your "rights", you always do the "right" thing to protect your friends, family, and those of us you have never met....

Masks are NOT a political statement.... They are to help prevent a spread of a deadly disease where the case count in the USA has doubled in 3 weeks.... If you want to stop it from doing so again, PLEASE wear a mask....

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 12, 2020, 08:43:56 AM
58 years old now and still dont own a mask. our misguided kentucky governor thinks he has authority to make us wear one, has already been stopped by american politicians in our state. dang my daystate sure does work great, life is good :), i hope everyone here is healthy happy and free, and enjoying their chosen airguns !

Well, the trend is more cases of Covid-19 in Kentucky. Why is that? Did Kentucky open up bars, restaurants, churches, and other businesses with folks sharing space and air? Know anyone who got the virus?

I wear a mask when I go out in public, and I avoid crowds, and confined spaces. It’s a small thing to put on a mask, and reduce the chance that I get infected or possibly get others infected.

Last time I had surgery to get cancer cut out of my tonsil, my doc, nurses and anesthesiologist all wore masks.

My Dentist and dental hygienists all wear masks when scraping my teeth and filling a cavity.

Seems pretty simple and easy. I have asthma and hate the damn masks but I’ve tested oxygen levels in my blood before, during and after wearing a mask and there is no difference. How effective is mask wearing, social distancing and banning large gatherings in confined spaces? Well, look to other countries that have done a much better job of containing Covid-19, such as Japan, New Zealand etc. it apparently takes a combined effort, and folks in other parts of the world see containment of a deadly disease as being freedom. In our case a fixation on personal freedom over common sense and desire to protect others from a deadly disease has evolved into freedumb.

Wear your mask, wash your hands and social distance, and maybe our numbers of Covid19 will go down and stay down.

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 12, 2020, 08:46:16 AM
I find this really sad.... Yes, you are 100% correct, nobody can force you to wear a mask.... However, deciding not to do so is exactly the same as running a red light because it is your right to decide whether to stop or not.... After all, it's your life, right?.... Pity about those who trust others to do the right thing, and obey an "arbitrary" law.... It is my understanding that personal rights stop where they affect the rights and freedoms of others, but maybe that is just when convenient....  ???

The consequences of not wearing a mask are obvious, and not doing so shows an utter disrespect for the lives, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness of the rest of the human race.... I sincerely hope that regardless of your "rights", you always do the "right" thing to protect your friends, family, and those of us you have never met....

Masks are NOT a political statement.... They are to help prevent a spread of a deadly disease where the case count in the USA has doubled in 3 weeks.... If you want to stop it from doing so again, PLEASE wear a mask....

Bob

Well said Bob. Thank you.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on July 12, 2020, 09:03:43 AM
Not wanting to start an argument, but the wearing for a mask has two sides, as every coin has. Assuming you are exposed to the Wuhan virus, and it collects on your mask, every time you breath on or out, you help distribute a greater quantity of the virus to others, and yourself.

I can't speak for any state, but the edict here in New Mexico is that you must wear a mask any time you're in public. The local authorities are stopping people in their vehicles for not wearing one. In that case, they're in violation of Federal law (Third Amendment). It is even questionable if the edict from state authorities is legal? I can't say one way or the other, but that scenario was used by the Kentucky opponents to fight that state's edict.

No justification, but it seems there are more myths out there, than truths. One thing is for sure, there are those who need to be prosecuted for releasing this virus, which I suspect will never happen.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Steelhead on July 12, 2020, 09:09:43 AM
Times two for Bob. A mask is not politics...it's common sense. Oh wait, our president doesn't wear a mask. Except of course for a photo op at Walter Reed. Since the person that Americans should be looking up to the most sets the worst example, what else would you expect? Shame on him.

Unfortunately just like anything else that self-serving politicians (blue or red) can grasp onto that will further their agenda, they will do so. With Covid policy as well. At times like this I'm embarrassed to be an American. Instead of leadership, we're waiting to see when the next childish tweet and insult will come from our esteemed leader. I expect better than that from a sixth grader.

Congratulations to our leaders for using a pandemic to further polarize a nation. This post can be deleted as being inflammatory; it's ok. However, part of my vow to be a better citizen is to speak up when a wrong is being committed and not let bullies run roughshod over others. Wearing a mask to PROTECT OTHERS shouldn't be a big deal. Grow up and at least pretend like you give two shits about someone else besides yourself.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 12, 2020, 09:46:26 AM
You do realize that this Virus HAS BEEN CLASSIFIED AS A AIRBORNE VIRUS, right?  If you are woke to that fact then you must realize that "social distancing" is only a concept, not a healthcare enhancement.  Masks, while fashionable aren't effective in social gatherings.  Being AIRBORNE, the Virus doesn't need spit to be the carrier.  If you're really concerned about protecting yourself and others, you should be wearing a respirator mask, AND a face shield.  Look at this as a political instrument, because it most definitely meets the smell test.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 12, 2020, 09:59:17 AM
/>
Interesting video by an informed Physician concerning the Political manipulation of statistical data.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: bnowlin on July 12, 2020, 10:04:56 AM
The president finally wore a mask for the first time in public yesterday when he visited Walter Reed saying it "was the right thing to do".
I am not sure either way, wear or not wear, but why taunt the dang virus just because it might help.  And just because can or don't have to.  We wear one every time we go some where when and if we do go.  It is just crazy to see the amount of people that don't seem to care.  I seriously believe that the biggest portion of the folks that cause this latest surge
were protesters, rioters, and folks that think they are invincible.

Bobn
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 12, 2020, 10:12:09 AM
The president finally wore a mask for the first time in public yesterday when he visited Walter Reed saying it "was the right thing to do".
I am not sure either way, wear or not wear, but why taunt the dang virus just because it might help.  And just because can or don't have to.  We wear one every time we go some where when and if we do go.  It is just crazy to see the amount of people that don't seem to care.  I seriously believe that the biggest portion of the folks that cause this latest surge
were protesters, rioters, and folks that think they are invincible.

Bobn

There is little evidence that protestors and rioters spread the virus. You only need to look at video from the countless protests nationwide to see protesters wearing masks. On the contrary it appears that partiers, and political gatherings where people do not social distance and do not wear masks, are where the covid numbers are going up.  Look at Florida...
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on July 12, 2020, 10:17:49 AM
The latest test results I have seen is that a simple cloth masks decreases the spread of the virus by a factor of SIX.... In addition, "sneeze" tests show that droplets from a typical cough or sneeze without a mask can travel up to 8 feet.... A bandana cuts that to 3 feet, and a two layer cloth mask that fits well cuts that down to 2.5 INCHES....

There is "airborne', as in the virus itself can survive in the air, like Measles, or how big a droplet it needs to stay viable.... The latest data shows that it can exist in a smaller droplet than previously thought, and since smaller droplets can hang in the air longer.... ie walking down a hallway a few minutes after somebody with COVID coughed or sneezed there, is less safe.... However, the greatest risk (and you can't eliminate them all) is being in close proximity to another, indoors, without both parties wearing a mask, for a prolonged period of time....

Science or Politics?.... You want to sign up to experiment with YOUR life, go ahead.... but you do NOT have my permission to threaten MINE.... PERIOD....

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 12, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Again, well said Bob. I am in full agreement.

Why do people go through all these histrionics to justify NOT wearing a mask? It’s such a simple and easy thing to do. It is not a major inconvenience to wear a mask and improve all of our odds of staying safe.

This thing is not going away anytime soon.

Send my kids back to school? That’s utter bs, coming out of the President’s mouth. To send our kids back to school prematurely endangers us all.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 12, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
The latest test results I have seen is that a simple cloth masks decreases the spread of the virus by a factor of SIX.... In addition, "sneeze" tests show that droplets from a typical cough or sneeze without a mask can travel up to 8 feet.... A bandana cuts that to 3 feet, and a two layer cloth mask that fits well cuts that down to 2.5 INCHES....

There is "airborne', as in the virus itself can survive in the air, like Measles, or how big a droplet it needs to stay viable.... The latest data shows that it can exist in a smaller droplet than previously thought, and since smaller droplets can hang in the air longer.... ie walking down a hallway a few minutes after somebody with COVID coughed or sneezed there, is less safe.... However, the greatest risk (and you can't eliminate them all) is being in close proximity to another, indoors, without both parties wearing a mask, for a prolonged period of time....

Science or Politics?.... You want to sign up to experiment with YOUR life, go ahead.... but you do NOT have my permission to threaten MINE.... PERIOD....

Bob

I'd suggest you NOT come anywhere near me or mine.  You're likely a carrier and don't know it since you wear a spit trap on your face.
You obviously show no regard to differing opinions, even to the message from the Physician I cited above.  He even states that masks aren't effective.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 12, 2020, 10:50:34 AM
Go to about the 9 minute mark and listen to what this Physician has to say; if there's NO politicization on CV 19 ( just another virus) then you aren't objectively looking at the FACTUAL evidence.  It's obvious to me that the longer this "mandated" buffoonery continues that the actual fabric of this Nation will be irreparably torn apart, and that's exactly what the Socialists are trying to accomplish.  Fauci with his ties to China; China with it's control of WHO, and on and on. The term "lockstep" comes to mind.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 12, 2020, 11:08:58 AM
Go to about the 9 minute mark and listen to what this Physician has to say; if there's NO politicization on CV 19 ( just another virus) then you aren't objectively looking at the FACTUAL evidence.  It's obvious to me that the longer this "mandated" buffoonery continues that the actual fabric of this Nation will be irreparably torn apart, and that's exactly what the Socialists are trying to accomplish.  Fauci with his ties to China; China with it's control of WHO, and on and on. The term "lockstep" comes to mind.
Seems to me that the anti-maskers, same as in 1918 with San Francisco's powerful 'Anti Mask League', are the ones seeking attention and tearing society apart, much the way the rioters on Portland and other cities are trying to do every night for the past month and a half. Get attention. Claim to be standing for something. Seek some sort of 'returned fire' to gain even more attention, obviously bolstering support and bigger numbers. Soon society will be more bifurcated than ever along a number of dimensions, skin colour, mask/no mask, wealth status, religious affiliation, education level... and all in service of what, exactly? Who benefits from wearing a mask? The government? Is big government in the cloth selling business now? Oh, but it's all about 'compliance' right?

Well think about that. If compliance was really the goal where masks are concerned, wouldn't government with their millions of cameras and software gathering information on populations mandate that masks CAN NOT BE WORN IN PUBLIC PLACES to aid their goal of gaining maximum control over people's actions? By hiding our faces in public, do we not undermine that effort, which is now almost world-wide, with China leading the way? And yet here was see China dictating mask use, which completely circumvents their video monitoring of their population. The argument makes zero sense. But hey, MUH FREEDUMS! Right? Honestly, it's a wonder to me how these anti-maskers even get their shoes tied in the morning, there's so little evidence of any capacity for coherent thought.

But of course I'm spitting into the wind with this. The Dunning-Kruger effect is real, as are a number of other basic tenets of human psychology, all boringly predictable. The less capable the individual, the more capable they will likely perceive themselves to be. Going to sources such as https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0869-5 showing that asymptomatic/presymptomatic spread is probably around 44% isn't something most are likely to bother doing, much less actually reading the studies. Seems for many that it takes actually losing a family member or friend to the disease before they believe the pandemic is even real, and in some cases people don't believe even then. I saw a clip a couple of weeks ago of some idiot at a Trump rally proudly explaining that while he'd lost a cousin to COVID-19, and another relative was currently severely ill with the disease, it seemed to him that the media was full of lies and you just can't trust the media, so he was not wearing a mask and was going to go with what Trump said, whatever that was. We're doomed.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 12, 2020, 11:24:56 AM
Thank you for making my point:   "Soon society will be more bifurcated than ever along a number of dimensions, skin colour, mask/no mask, wealth status, religious affiliation, education level... and all in service of what, exactly?".   NWO!!!   BTW,  isn't Canada a Socialist leaning society?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 12, 2020, 11:29:02 AM
The latest test results I have seen is that a simple cloth masks decreases the spread of the virus by a factor of SIX.... In addition, "sneeze" tests show that droplets from a typical cough or sneeze without a mask can travel up to 8 feet.... A bandana cuts that to 3 feet, and a two layer cloth mask that fits well cuts that down to 2.5 INCHES....

There is "airborne', as in the virus itself can survive in the air, like Measles, or how big a droplet it needs to stay viable.... The latest data shows that it can exist in a smaller droplet than previously thought, and since smaller droplets can hang in the air longer.... ie walking down a hallway a few minutes after somebody with COVID coughed or sneezed there, is less safe.... However, the greatest risk (and you can't eliminate them all) is being in close proximity to another, indoors, without both parties wearing a mask, for a prolonged period of time....

Science or Politics?.... You want to sign up to experiment with YOUR life, go ahead.... but you do NOT have my permission to threaten MINE.... PERIOD....

Bob

I'd suggest you NOT come anywhere near me or mine.  You're likely a carrier and don't know it since you wear a spit trap on your face.
You obviously show no regard to differing opinions, even to the message from the Physician I cited above.  He even states that masks aren't effective.

Does that Doctor wear a mask when performing surgery? Does he wear a mask or gloves when treating a patient with an infectious disease?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 12, 2020, 11:35:13 AM
You must be a Lawyer Steve since you've asked a question that you already know the answer.  So I'll ask you:  is a Quarter the same amount as 5 nickles?  IMO, that question makes as much sense as your question.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 12, 2020, 11:37:37 AM
/>
Interesting video by an informed Physician concerning the Political manipulation of statistical data.

This particular Doctor / Senator is under investigation for spreading disinformation.

https://www.minnpost.com/glean/2020/07/minnesota-state-senator-says-he-is-being-investigation-by-board-of-medical-practice-over-covid-19-comments/

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 12, 2020, 11:41:16 AM
Thank you for making my point:   "Soon society will be more bifurcated than ever along a number of dimensions, skin colour, mask/no mask, wealth status, religious affiliation, education level... and all in service of what, exactly?".   NWO!!!   BTW,  isn't Canada a Socialist leaning society?
I didn't bother mentioning that I fully expected you to come back with a snide comment such as this, figuring it was too obvious in my closing sentence "We're doomed." And we are. Because people like you, pretending that doing the opposite of whatever the authorities say is an expression of personal freedom or 'rights,' will doom us to tens or even hundreds of millions dead of COVID-19 instead of hundreds of thousands. What passes for thinking in the majority of any population is sadly an illusion. Most simply go along with whatever seems most fun or popular. Hence the trend in 'democratic' elections, picking the candidate who seems most likely to win, as who wants to be on the losing side? Actual independent thinking has long-since been removed from our education system. Ironically, by socialists. Think on that puzzle for a minute, then tell me why wearing a mask to defeat government and corporate surveillance systems is a curtailment of your freedom. I'll wait.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on July 12, 2020, 12:14:58 PM
Gentlemen! You're free to express your opinions here, but do not get personal!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 12, 2020, 01:19:09 PM
Thank you for making my point:   "Soon society will be more bifurcated than ever along a number of dimensions, skin colour, mask/no mask, wealth status, religious affiliation, education level... and all in service of what, exactly?".   NWO!!!   BTW,  isn't Canada a Socialist leaning society?
I didn't bother mentioning that I fully expected you to come back with a snide comment such as this, figuring it was too obvious in my closing sentence "We're doomed." And we are. Because people like you, pretending that doing the opposite of whatever the authorities say is an expression of personal freedom or 'rights,' will doom us to tens or even hundreds of millions dead of COVID-19 instead of hundreds of thousands. What passes for thinking in the majority of any population is sadly an illusion. Most simply go along with whatever seems most fun or popular. Hence the trend in 'democratic' elections, picking the candidate who seems most likely to win, as who wants to be on the losing side? Actual independent thinking has long-since been removed from our education system. Ironically, by socialists. Think on that puzzle for a minute, then tell me why wearing a mask to defeat government and corporate surveillance systems is a curtailment of your freedom. I'll wait.

Nothing snide about my remarks, certainly not towards you.  I've presented factual info and you've been less than receptive to that, THE FACTS.  I worked in the healthcare field for over 40 years, and this Virus will be with us for centuries to come, with or without mask wearing compliance.  Also, the "annual Flu bug" is just about on us and it KILLS at a pace far exceeding CV 19, and that's with all the shots and medicines by the Millions of dollars thrown at it.  CV 19 is a man made manipulation designed to primarily dissable rather than kill.  The Chicom's need to pay dearly for this piece of global warfare.  BTW, you didn't answer my question about Canada's political leanings.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 12, 2020, 01:21:11 PM
/>
Interesting video by an informed Physician concerning the Political manipulation of statistical data.

This particular Doctor / Senator is under investigation for spreading disinformation.

https://www.minnpost.com/glean/2020/07/minnesota-state-senator-says-he-is-being-investigation-by-board-of-medical-practice-over-covid-19-comments/

If you'd listened any of this Dr's. message, he is expressly stating WHY he's being investigated.  He WILL be found not guilty; bet ya.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 12, 2020, 01:36:12 PM
If I misapprehended your tone, my apologies. Finishing with the Trump team's line about Canada being socialist just seems an awful lot like snideness... but perhaps from an American-media-saturated perspective that seems to you a legitimate thing to say? So allowing that it may be asked in good faith, I'll answer. If 'socialist' to you means something like what is happening in China, then no, not remotely. If you mean something like what existed before the failure of the United Soviet Socialist Republics, then again, no, not by a country mile. If you mean socialist as in the current or previous governments and social organization of the country of Venezuela, not even remotely.

But if you mean socialist in the sense that France is a socialist country... well, perhaps leaning a bit that way, but we're still a long way off from that. If you mean the UK is a socialist country, then perhaps we're a bit closer, but still nowhere nearly so oppressively socialist as they are there - we can still own pistols, though we're only allowed to shoot them at a range. There's a trend in the current government to squash most firearms ownership but there's also a strong legal challenge, and considering the current investigation into Trudeau and his family and his Liberal cabinet for numerous counts of fundamentally capitalist corruption scandals... I don't think the new Order in Council banning over 9,700 models of rifle is going to stand very long, certainly not the full 2 years before these models are actually confiscated.

Trump cronies have been very, very active, spending many millions of dollars on propaganda to make the word 'socialist' stick to Canada, especially around our medical plan. It was recently confessed by one member of that propaganda group that the campaign has been going on for decades, primarily paid for my medical insurers with a vested interest in maintaining the current USA model which hosts over 3,000 separate companies who sell insurance for various medical coverage. In Canada one can get for-profit medical care if you have the money, but it's basically free or nearly free for anyone who needs surgery, cancer treatment, whatever. In BC, where I live, we still pay medical insurance premiums, which is something the current 'socialist' government here is trying to dismantle. It's an exception brought in by a right-wing government long ago and something which has made access ever so slightly more challenging for a tiny percentage of people in BC, but really not all that bad. There is a national movement to add comprehensive dental care to the medical coverage model and it's gaining traction, with resistance from dentists of course, who profit from a basically unregulated private business model with little oversight. There are a lot of other things we could go into, but I think this covers one of the more important areas - healthcare is seen here as a fundamental human right. Is that socialist? Or is that humanitarian? And the privatized medical system in the USA, which by definition excludes tens of millions of the most needy people from care, is that capitalist? Or is that anti-humanitarian and cruel?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on July 12, 2020, 02:17:43 PM
Exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis! The exception confirms the rule in cases not excepted.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on July 12, 2020, 02:33:11 PM
FREEDUMB!.... I like that....  ::)

Canada bounces back and forth around the center of the political spectrum.... We are currently leaning a bit to the left, even though that is not my personal view.... I think we have a good balance.... I would not give up our medical system for a user pay one, not ever!....

It saddens me to see how little many people care about anyone but themselves, and this is not limited to the USA.... Kelowna, the nearest City to where I live has abandoned masks for the most part, and are now suffering a significant outbreak.... Yeah, about 8 people at last count, which is significant, because the whole Interior of BC (about the area of Arizona) had no new cases for nearly a month....

Canada has 1/9th of the population of the USA, and have 1/32 of the number of cases.... Here in BC, with a population approaching 5 million, we have about 3,000 cases and 187 deaths.... I look at Florida, Texas, Arizona, California, even Washington state, and I just cringe.... If we had a similar death rate to the USA here in BC, we should have over 2000 dead, instead of less than 200.... It makes me soooooooooooo glad I am not an American, because you are behaving like a 3rd world country, instead of the world leader you claim to be.... It truly saddens me.... :(

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 12, 2020, 06:01:21 PM
When all the dust settles and the "bean counters" tabulate ACTUAL deaths due to CV19, the rate WILL be less than .1%.  Right now everyone is tagging a hospital death as a covid death whether a test was run to determine the presence of the Virus or not.  Several ways to S.W.A.G. the stats my friend.  I have nothing bad to say about Canadians either, I just wouldn't want to be one.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on July 12, 2020, 06:21:16 PM
BTW, just so you don't think I am criticizing only the US.... over the last 2 days I have written Global TV BC regarding the shameful lack of mask use in Kelowna.... and also the local Princeton newspaper, a Letter to the Editor with the title "What Are You All Thinking?".... There is more than enough blame to go around, IMO.... I fully expect a rebound in cases here in BC.... particularly once School reopens in September....  ::)

Here in BC they are not counting every death in hospital as COVID related, every suspected case must test positive before being included in either the case count, hospitalization, or death toll.... Our contact tracing, fortunately, is extremely good, 75% of contacts are found and informed they have been exposed within 48 hours, and over 90% within 72 hours.... Our small case count helps, of course, you can't do that when you have 60,000+ positive tests per day.... We are doing enough tests that our positivity rate in BC is similar to the current New York rate, at around 1%....

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 12, 2020, 06:25:45 PM
When all the dust settles and the "bean counters" tabulate ACTUAL deaths due to CV19, the rate WILL be less than .1%.  Right now everyone is tagging a hospital death as a covid death whether a test was run to determine the presence of the Virus or not.  Several ways to S.W.A.G. the stats my friend.  I have nothing bad to say about Canadians either, I just wouldn't want to be one.

It's not just the deaths but the ongoing debilitating illness that some victims end up with. This is not the Flu. It is something entirely new, and the scientists are still figuring out how the virus ticks, why some folks have extreme reactions to it, and why some do not even show symptoms but carry and pass on the virus with deadly results.

The statistics are purposely being suppressed by some folks like the governor of Florida. Why, ask yourself is Covid19 being politicized? Why are the scientists alarmed, and so many politicians, apparently unconcerned and willing to sacrifice a certain amount of the population? Are you willing to sacrifice yourself, or friends or family?

Again, I say the United States government lead by the man in the oval office and supported by his party, have demonstrably had the poorest response to the virus than any other leading nation in the world.  We have become a 3rd world country under the current regime. Just look at our response, the number of dead, and diseased, and the total collapse of the economy. If we have another four years of the current yahoo in chief, we are seriously screwed. Why anyone would want to follow in his footsteps is insane. What a friggen mess.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 12, 2020, 06:30:39 PM
BTW, just so you don't think I am criticizing only the US.... over the last 2 days I have written Global TV BC regarding the shameful lack of mask use in Kelowna.... and also the local Princeton newspaper, a Letter to the Editor with the title "What Are You All Thinking?".... There is more than enough blame to go around, IMO.... I fully expect a rebound in cases here in BC.... particularly once School reopens in September....  ::)

Here in BC they are not counting every death in hospital as COVID related, every suspected case must test positive before being included in either the case count, hospitalization, or death toll.... Our contact tracing, fortunately, is extremely good, 75% of contacts are found and informed they have been exposed within 48 hours, and over 90% within 72 hours.... Our small case count helps, of course, you can't do that when you have 60,000+ positive tests per day.... We are doing enough tests that our positivity rate in BC is similar to the current New York rate, at around 1%....

Bob

I have no issues with your criticism. We have some pretty significant issues, and if we don't get our shit together soon, we are doomed. A month ago I was in a Home Depot. Half of the people and workers wore masks. A Vallejo City Council mandate that everyone wear masks in public changed that. I'd say 95% or more folks wore their masks on my next visit. Vallejo was hit hard by Covid, and folks paid attention. My message to those not wearing masks is to act like a citizen who cares about others and just wear your damn mask.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 12, 2020, 06:44:11 PM
Gets a bit tricky when asking someone to put on a mask can get you shot in the face, as has happened at least a couple of times in the US so far. And the amazingly funny and horrifying videos of people having emotional meltdowns over being asked to wear masks in stores just keep being shared, like it's the new national sport. And then there are the racist tirades. As if some asian family having dinner at a nice place in California is responsible for the Wuhan flu! (That CEO is likely watching helplessly as his company goes bankrupt, so his workers suffer, not just his racist idiot self.)

But sure, if you feel it's safe, ask people to wear masks. For myself, I'll bite my tongue. There are loads of people not wearing masks here in Vancouver. Overall I'd say it's just over half. Inside stores, on crowded sidewalks, pretty much anywhere. In a restaurant, I get it, you can't eat while wearing a mask, and if the place has established double spacing and other rules to keep it safer that's probably fine. But in grocery store aisles things can get very crowded, very quickly, and when someone coughs it's kind of a bad thing to be trapped within a few feet of them considering it could just be the beginning of the end for you. I'll keep the mask, thanks.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: kkarmical on July 12, 2020, 07:14:28 PM

Does wearing a mask and practicing social distancing, washing your hands, and avoiding crowds means you will not catch Covid-19?

Who knows, but not wearing one and acting like there is no pandemic issue going on will put you into a risk of possibly being exposed that could have been avoided, by a few simple changes in social behavior.

People that are trying to make a medical decision into a political issue, or believing there to be some sort of conspiracy, or controlling actions I just don't understand.

I was against using a mask, but then noticed that everywhere I go now is being cleaned frequently and the chemicals being used were actually irritating my throat, so I started wearing one and noticed I wasn't tasting chemicals anymore, and that is a good thing if you ask me.

Most places I go all have someone at the door turning people around for not wearing masks, and most cashiers are not ringing people up if they do not have their face covered.

I just do not see what the big deal is anymore, now that I am used to wearing.  Doesn't make me any less of a man for just simply trying to do something instead of doing nothing.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on July 12, 2020, 08:14:46 PM
Just a tid bit of news from a county with 373 square miles and about 6-8400 people (depends on time of year) we have about 8 people with the covid and 2 of them are Amish.  One Dead with covid complications. Go figure. My wife and I wear masks when around other people. Good thing around here is it is hard to get 6 people in one place at one time.
I do hope your .gov medical is better then my VA health care. My family is from over/up  there some moved to the US in the early 1900s.  Some of my extended family still over  there, do not care for the gun laws or the medical. But to each there own.  I pray for all people to get over this. Except maybe the Chinese army and the lab that made it.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: 761xl on July 13, 2020, 01:27:17 AM
 Noticed " freedumb/ freedum" used a few times. I didnt insult anybody here. Seem to me some folks think anybody who doesnt think what they think is inferior to them. Anybody heard stories of maskers pulling guns on nonmaskers? Thats a good way to be positive of never catching covid or anything else ever , Thats really dumb in my dumb opinion. Marksmanship > marxism.thx for all the good airgun info folks :)
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 13, 2020, 01:55:28 AM
Problem is, wearing a mask and not wearing a mask when dealing with other people in close proximity are not equal. Not even remotely. It's not like choosing between Pepsi and Coke. Not even like picking one or the other of the two idiots running for the next election. If you wear a mask, you are potentially saving 3 or more lives, given the current best estimate for R0 value of COVID-19 spread. If you don't wear one, and the same infectiousness rate applies, you may be infecting 3 or more people. If the risk from COVID-19 is overblown and you wear a mask, no real harm done. If it's overblown and you don't, again, no real harm done.

Those are the 4 possibilities being assessed. Considering the current official body count of 571,812, the now accepted fact of true aerosol spread, and the likelihood that were still at the tail end of the first wave in much of the world but not even at the peak of the first wave for more than half the world's population... And that the range of estimated deaths within 2 years from this disease is 47million at the low end and 350million at the upper end... doesn't it seem like a good idea to err on the side of caution? What would that hurt? Your ears? Switch to elastic going behind your head then. Your pride? Grow up and learn what taking responsibility means. The governments don't care either way. They're clinging to power, saying and doing whatever it takes to retain power. It's up to individual people to prevent more deaths than are necessary.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on July 13, 2020, 04:28:16 AM
I want to know why, Vietnam and several other SE countries haven't has a single death? What are they doing differently? Do they know shooting we don't? And no one mandates wearing a mask in Vietnam. are makes me wonder.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 13, 2020, 06:21:00 AM
I want to know why, Vietnam and several other SE countries haven't has a single death? What are they doing differently? Do they know shooting we don't? And no one mandates wearing a mask in Vietnam. are makes me wonder.

Probably all that Agent Orange.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: bnowlin on July 13, 2020, 07:06:07 AM
I want to know why, Vietnam and several other SE countries haven't has a single death? What are they doing differently? Do they know shooting we don't? And no one mandates wearing a mask in Vietnam. are makes me wonder.

Probably all that Agent Orange.

LOL I guess it has helped me so far.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on July 13, 2020, 07:20:40 AM
Think back to RVN Vietnam, Lambrettas with 20 people hanging on , trains with people packed like cows. I don't recall one arvn I worked with ever wash their hands, i'm sure they but I never witnessed it. Then again I guess I did not either except back at the compound in Hue. Maybe they just are not reporting it. And the menu!, you would think the stuff they eat would carry a virus.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 13, 2020, 08:47:58 AM
First off, thank you both for your service.  I was Navy 1965 ~ 69. Closest I got to Vietnam was a 2 year stint on Guam (where America's day begins) as a 8483 (Hospital Corpsman Operating Room Tech).  Second; more likely than not Virus, but beaucoup bacteria.  I recall we operated on a NVA for Gallbladder and he was TOTALLY full of intestinal Flukes. Gross!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 15, 2020, 08:51:26 AM
Kinda hard to know what to think about CV19 statistics.  In Florida some testing centers (according to some reporting sites) showed several Testing Centers reporting 100% positive.  Statistically that's impossible.  So someone(s) within the state are not playing by the rules.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on July 15, 2020, 09:14:16 AM
If there are so many people with symptoms who are rushing to get tested, and there are testing centers designated for only those with symptoms (which there definitely are in some areas), it is not only possible, but likely.... Why does everything have to devolve to a conspiracy theory for some?....

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 15, 2020, 09:41:14 AM
Who said anything about a conspiracy theory?  Facts are Facts. The Left in this country are 110% dedicated to winning in November.  That said, they ARE using any means necessary to achieve their goal. They've already been caught falsifying mail in ballots. 
The info I provided above is FACTUAL not a conspiracy.  Why is it that SOME choose to ignore ANY information that doesn't conform to their "theories"?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on July 15, 2020, 09:42:55 AM
The tests have an accuracy ratio which results in both false positive and false negative results. About the best report on this issue is here: (https://www.cochrane.org/news/new-cochrane-review-assesses-how-accurate-antibody-tests-are-detecting-covid-19).

I agree with the good Captain in this case, but with some revelations. One of those reservations is a political-biased one, as has already been reported on every major media outlet.

I should also point out, that just because a family member comes down with the disease, doesn't mean other family members will or won't, the use of masks notwithstanding. While population and/or family density plays a part, that fact isn't the holy grail of infectious conformity. Rather it is how healthy and/or susceptible your are to the strain in question. And, answering that question is statistically impossible to predict.

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on July 15, 2020, 09:54:32 AM
Well it is kinda like this, The USA has allowed people to act out not peaceable , but in way that is unlawful. I won't get into the party system , lets just say a small radical portion of our pop. Not unlike when your tribel troubles along the border happened years ago or when a portion of the french pop there acted up. So what we have is a small allowed insurection going on. Mostly in certin controled cities. Not so much in suburbs or country side. A for instance people with a certin mind set are allowed to keep jobs they should not have simply because they are given preferance. EXP: A nurse/staff of our VA hospital system who has worked there many years and has been reprimanded several times , but not canned! just confessed to killing 1 patient because she thought they should not be alive anymore. Now if she would have been canned the first complaint instead of , OH no we can't fire her because it will upset a portion of or a group of special people. So 7 more passed on under her care until they caught her giving them a overdose of insulin. She has now confessed to at least 1 murder and looking at 7 more. Our system has morphed into a bad place. Now all country's go thru this stuff at some time. So it is a balance act and I hope we come out as well as you all up there. Say a prayer for the troubles of the world , it is most like not over yet.
Covid might be the start, and just because you think someone is trying to kill you, you might be crazy OR they might be trying too.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 15, 2020, 10:59:30 AM
As regards large gatherings, whether protests or outdoor political rallies, it seems our understanding of the dynamics is trending towards vitamin D production due to sun exposure of the skin, and the virus-destructive effects of UV radiation, enhanced by significant percentages wearing masks, all seem to minimize transmission of the virus. I was quite concerned about the BLM-supportive protests at the beginning of June in Vancouver, with over 10,000 people in attendance and many packed quite close. But watching the video of the protests it seems the majority wore some sort of mask, preventing the bulk of liquid/aerosol spread, and the numbers reported by our health authorities 6 weeks later seem to confirm that this was not actually a significantly risky activity. Good weather, lots of sun, and people largely behaving with caution.

Contrastingly, Florida's spring break behaviour which had hundreds of thousands grinding against each other in nightclubs and on beaches made it fairly obvious why the outcomes in Florida have turned out a bit worse. Well that's understatement really. BC's COVID-19 count is among the lowest on the continent, as we've been, in general (with some obvious exceptions) been observing basic precautions.

As for individual susceptibility; the increasing reports of children and young adults in otherwise excellent health becoming severely ill, developing what seems like permanent organ damage, and a non-trivial number of these kids dying of COVID-19, all seem to indicate that the cavalier attitude being expressed over the risk should cease. Even the top staff at the White House are wearing masks now in many situations. It's become that obvious. Eating crow seems the be on the menu for a lot of deniers, though even while talking through masks they're reluctant to admit it. And there are very significant economic and political motivations for such states of denial.

'Winning' is the order of the day. Who wants to be perceived as 'losing' to a virus? In a world increasingly dominated by popularity contests, more and more being organized like some silly TV reality show, bravado seems the obvious route. Especially for those catering to the amendment-quoting right wing among voters. 'Freedom' and 'liberty' and 'New World Order' conspiracy stuff are all on the table with this impending election. Just as 'Social Justice' dominated our last election in Canada, resulting in a second term (though with 33% of the popular vote, Trudeau seems to me scarcely in a position to think he has a mandate, and is behaving as though he had a majority ONLY thanks of the pandemic which is giving him cover) for a widely despised Liberal party.

Strange times. Bit of a coin toss as to what happens next in almost any area of large scale social and economic functionality. We could be headed for a continent-wide civil/race war. Or things could settle down and we could recover perhaps as much as 75% of normal economic function, though I doubt it'll be any better than that for the next few years. My son just profited by $1057 on an ounce of gold he bought 5 years ago, thanks entirely to the pandemic and the resulting failures of leadership, so there's a silver (or gold) lining anyway. He's got a stash of silver too, and we're considering whether to buy more of that with his gains or risk holding on to cash when hyper-inflation could be just around the corner. Of course if he's not around to spend it, no one investment will mean much, so we wear masks when out among others and use a lot of hand sanitizer, and don't have guests into the house. For my part I'm putting spare cash into ammunition and firearms. In a pinch these can also be used as trade goods or simple re-sold sometime when things turn around, so no loss there even if I don't shoot the stuff.

But seriously, I'm at a loss every single day looking at all the ranting and raving from people being compelled to wear masks. It's a mystery. It's like you're being asked to hop around on one foot or something, perhaps being told not to eat meat - you'd think there was actual suffering involved.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: kkarmical on July 15, 2020, 11:23:53 AM


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/14/michigan-mask-confrontation-man-shot-killed-police-after-stabbing/5436217002/

That body cam picture shows the suspect charging the arresting officer with a knife, right before the officer shot him..
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 15, 2020, 11:34:55 AM


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/14/michigan-mask-confrontation-man-shot-killed-police-after-stabbing/5436217002/

That body cam picture shows the suspect charging the arresting officer with a knife, right before the officer shot him..
Wow. That's a surreal series of videos. How the heck does a guy who is capable of earning a living and buying a home in a nice looking suburban neighbourhood flip out over an elderly man suggesting he wear a mask and stab him? That just seems too bizarre. Sometimes I'm just left scratching my head about the way some people's minds work.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on July 15, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
I wonder if the dept . took away his pepper gas/night stick/baton (steel one each)/taser etc so all he has left is his side arm. Not saying the perp didn't have it coming just wonder why he got so dang close. Where was this?.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 15, 2020, 12:29:39 PM
It said Michigan. And the female officer seems to have outright missed him with at least 2 of her initial fusillade of shots. Since initially replying here I've downloaded a copy of the video and watched it twice at 25% speed, and it seems the first and second shots missed low-and-left, the third struck him shallowly in the upper right side of his chest, and the fourth shot possibly hit him in the groin area. Seemed he was completely unaffected by most of her shots, and the angles I was seeing on the pistol looked consistent with very poor marksmanship. The last couple of shots seem to have found their mark.

This is something I see fairly consistently in police body cam footage. Even allowing for the distorted angle from camera to gun, it's obvious that only rarely does an officer actually have their pistol upright. Skewing 'gangster style' with the slide tilted to the left is the most common error. This officer tilted between 5 and 15 degrees to the right instead, an odd sort of error. Seems likely her attention was more on the screwdrivers in his hands than on her front sight... and hey, can't really blame her, that would be a scary thing, happening fast. But plainly more range time would be of some benefit. Especially to potential innocent bystanders in the houses behind the attacker. Ricochets are a thing.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on July 15, 2020, 12:57:24 PM
I will look it up. I hope she did not come from the police academy I taught at. We expended 3000 round per student. But we had a lot of people mostly females that could not hit a mcoles or a b27 target at 4 yards. The 40 s&w scared em. They are now going back to 9 mm. Even the guys would whine , I can't hit the target because you made me shoot from the grass and it is uneven. I am so glad I retired. Don't even talk about 12 ga shotgun, I always wore body armor on the range.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on July 15, 2020, 01:01:24 PM
I forgot , we had to swap to low recoil slugs/ buck and the lowest load we could get for the pistols and they still could not hit the target, Not all, but enough to make you cringe. Now with a covid mask , all bets are off. Yes she was fully with"en her rights as I watch the video, wonder why she missed, counted 10 shots. Missed him most shots, wonder were  those shots went. Had to be the covid mask in her way,wait not sure she had one.. Nice houses around the scene.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 22, 2020, 08:02:48 AM
Here's some food for thought:

WWSB Tampa
Concerns arise as some receive positive COVID-19 results but never got tested
2 days ago


WWSB Tampa logo Concerns arise as some receive positive COVID-19 results but never got tested

SARASOTA, Fla. (WWSB) - Coronavirus continues to spread quickly across the state. Plus, now, on the Suncoast, although testing has been made more available, many say there are some problems in really getting a handle on how much the virus is in our community.

Concerns Over COVID-19 Test Results © Provided by WWSB Tampa Concerns Over COVID-19 Test Results
It has nothing to do with being able to get tested, but instead the results. The quickest turnaround is about 48 hours, and the majority of the time, it can take about a week of finding out if you’re infected our not. However, the most recent issue is getting back results that aren’t even yours.

“I got a call asking for me, and they told me that I had tested positive. I was like, ‘Positive for what?” Then, the lady said for COVID, and I said, ‘That’s impossible. I never got tested, Ma’am,’” Mindy Clark said.

Clark had gone to the drive thru testing sight at Manatee Rural Health, but before she was able to get swabbed, she left the line because she realized it was for people with symptoms only.

“I told them they needed to take this off my record, and they said I had to prove it to them that I wasn’t positive,” Clark continued.

She tested negative just two days later, and also tested negative for the antibodies. Plus, according to many of our viewers, this hasn’t only happened to her.

Clark says if she and many others have been incorrectly identified as positive in the state’s system so easily, how accurate are the numbers that are released daily?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 22, 2020, 09:32:54 AM
The whole problem here is the politicization of Covid19.

1. it isn't a conspiracy.

2. it is a pandemic affecting most countries in the world

3. some countries handled covid19 much better than we have, and now have reopened their economies, and are getting back to normal.

4. people at the very top of our government have purposely sent out confusing and conflicting messages, and have not until recently even worn masks themselves. This is the conspiracy, designed to turn Americans against Americans. The one who complains about fake news spreads it more than any news organization.

5. the president has said that the more we test the more positive results we get, and that to lower the numbers we have to stop testing.  (idiotic message that makes me bonk head)

6. conspiracy nuts and dingbats are equating wearing masks with losing freedom. (bonk head) They stop wearing masks and social distancing and the numbers of sick and dying are increasing exponentially. Things will get MUCH worse before they get better.

7. the president wants to send kids back to school in the fall. Schools are Petri dishes, and I'm convinced that most colds and flu's are passed around at school and brought home. Now we have Covid19 which is highly contagious, and imagine how that will work out in the fall. Herd immunity? hahahahahaha.

8.Testing needs to increase, not decrease as the president desires, and the testing needs to get more reliable, become available to all citizens free of charge, and get results back within 24 hours. An effective federal government response would have happened months ago, but it is a political issue for many before being a humanitarian issue.

9. The extra unemployment benefits expire at the end of the month, along with protections against foreclosures, and evictions. Do we need to wonder what it will be like when 30 million unemployed Americans suddenly find themselves living on the streets? Think the economy is bad now? Just imagine the effect of 30 million people not being able to buy food, goods and services. The whole country is going to fall like dominoes and become a ghost town.

I am not at all optimistic. At this point we need smart people running things, and politicians need to butt out. Stupid people who don't believe in science should just butt out also.

Off my soap box.

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 22, 2020, 09:46:52 AM
I am not at all optimistic. At this point we need smart people running things, and politicians need to butt out. Stupid people who don't believe in science should just butt out also.

Similar feeling for me. Loads of evidence piling up indicating we're basically along for the ride, the lowest common denominator making decisions for the rest of us. Our political leadership in Canada is finally being exposed for the deeply corrupt idiots they truly are... but it's unlikely that will result in a snap election, as most are too worried about the economy and their emergency benefits to risk a change. In the USA you may have a glimmer of hope of #Unity2020 can take off. Seems like momentum is growing, but that's a very hard thing to pull off, doing an end run around a massively corrupt pair of established parties:
https://www.articlesofunity.com/
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on July 22, 2020, 10:14:45 AM
One thing to keep in mind. Those folks who are dying from (the various) Covid infections, have compromised immune systems. Asthmatics, COPD sufferers, undetected cancers, liver diseases, etc., are just a few. And yes, this includes children, but for the most part, children are far less prone, than say someone 70+ years old, who has smoked most of their life. And, if that weren't enough, the above example, and many more like it, are skewing the numbers.

My comment? Vote down incumbency, don't reelect anyone!
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 22, 2020, 10:30:23 AM
IMO, Alan; the root cause of the problem ISN'T the elected by and large, it's the incompetent Bureaucratic cesspool that has the power/control.  Look how hard POTUS has worked to correct and or "drain the swamp" with seemingly little success.  When the AMA went political decades ago, that's when everything medical went sideways.  CDC and NIH are in the mix as well.  It's amazing anyone survives, except for the fabulous life form/system GOD built.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 22, 2020, 11:02:51 AM
IMO, Alan; the root cause of the problem ISN'T the elected by and large, it's the incompetent Bureaucratic cesspool that has the power/control.  Look how hard POTUS has worked to correct and or "drain the swamp" with seemingly little success.  When the AMA went political decades ago, that's when everything medical went sideways.  CDC and NIH are in the mix as well.  It's amazing anyone survives, except for the fabulous life form/system GOD built.

Ummmm, I humbly disagree. "It is not the  incompetent Bureaucratic cesspool" staffed by professionals and scientists. Rather it is the newly appointed political lackeys who have not the qualifications and throwing a monkey wrench into the works and siphoning off tax payer money into the coffers of the rich and connected.

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on July 22, 2020, 03:28:02 PM
And I disagree too. If we want to be honest, look at the situation with Pansy Nolosy. She has been vocal to the max about wanting to see Trump's tax returns. So why, I ask, has she refused to show us her's? Same damn reason.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 22, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
IMO, Alan; the root cause of the problem ISN'T the elected by and large, it's the incompetent Bureaucratic cesspool that has the power/control.  Look how hard POTUS has worked to correct and or "drain the swamp" with seemingly little success.  When the AMA went political decades ago, that's when everything medical went sideways.  CDC and NIH are in the mix as well.  It's amazing anyone survives, except for the fabulous life form/system GOD built.

Ummmm, I humbly disagree. "It is not the  incompetent Bureaucratic cesspool" staffed by professionals and scientists. Rather it is the newly appointed political lackeys who have not the qualifications and throwing a monkey wrench into the works and siphoning off tax payer money into the coffers of the rich and connected.

I don't think for a minute you actually mean that you're humble.  That said, I think we might be talking about the same vermin. In my humble opinion, the underlined and highlighted above is the definition of Bureaucracy.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 22, 2020, 06:54:00 PM
So nobody will "bonk their head", here's some actual medical research info concerning Masks.

  The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons:

Conclusion: Wearing masks will not reduce SARS-CoV-2. N95 masks protect health care workers, but are not recommended for source control transmission.
Surgical masks are better than cloth but not very efficient at preventing emissions from infected patients.
Cloth masks will be ineffective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission, whether worn as source control or as personal protective equipment (PPE).
Known patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 wore masks and coughed into a Petrie dish. “Both surgical and cotton masks seem to be ineffective in preventing the dissemination of SARS–CoV-2 from the coughs of patients with COVID-19 to the environment and external mask surface.”
Medical masks offered no protection at all from influenza.
The wide use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not supported by current evidence and carries uncertainties and critical risks.
If you are sick, stay home!
Mask Facts - AAPS | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on July 22, 2020, 09:32:31 PM
I checked out your reference, and being somewhat surprised by what I read, decided to check into the source, the AAPS.... Here is one quote of many I found about them....

Quote
Though AAPS often takes positions that are associated with conservative groups, it sometimes goes even further, pushing fringe views that most mainstream conservatives do not endorse, such as the belief that mandatory vaccination is “equivalent to human experimentation” and that Medicare is “evil.”

It therefore, to me, seems to be a fringe group, rather than a reliable source.... so I'll stick to my understanding that masks, even non-medical masks worn properly, reduce the transmission of COVID-19 by a factor of SIX.... Many of the WHO statements quoted by the AAPS about wearing masks dated to early in the pandemic, when protecting PPE supplies for healthcare workers was of paramount importance.... Of particular interest were the statements by the WHO (not quoted by the AAPS) about surgical masks (which are loose fitting, and not as good as an N95 respirator), which are critically important in preventing the spread of droplets from doctors and nurses to the patient.... Gee, to me that seems just like what we are hearing about masks for COVID-19.... they do little to protect the wearer, but they do a great job of protecting OTHERS....

If you don't care about anybody but yourself, then not wearing a mask makes total sense, since it does little to help you from being infected.... Of course that asymptomatic person who just infected you because THEY weren't wearing one has the same rights you do....  ::)

The rights of the individual end where their actions affect the health and welfare of others.... PERIOD.... Common examples would be second hand cigarette smoke, or driving drunk....  :o

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 22, 2020, 09:39:29 PM
Thank you Bob. I had started to verify this claim and got distracted and never got back to it.

It’s been a day of frustrating experiences with Facebook friends constantly sharing incorrect and misleading information. I finally blocked one. I’m exhausted trying fact check what I know is BS. Of course the poster never believes me and never has the gumption to fact check themselves.

This country is imploding. Got room in Canada?

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on July 22, 2020, 10:09:21 PM
Always room for a valuable contributor to Canadian society....  8)

I heard something a couple of days ago about the US that really concerns me.... Roughly 1/3 of the population now feels that the Coronavirus is a hoax/hype designed to dethrone Trump in November, and that it will go away after the election, regardless of who is elected.... Not only that, but the percentage of Americans who feel that way is increasing, and has been increasing since the pandemic started.... How the people who feel that way justify the 11 million cases and nearly 500,000 deaths in the REST of the world, I cannot fathom.... Do they believe that is a hoax as well, or that the rest of the world really care who the next POTUS is, enough to kill our own citizens?....

To all those who feel that way, give your head a shake.... If you want to self-destruct, and become a 3rd world country because you think this is all (forgive the pun) "trumped up".... I have news for you.... Your politics are just NOT that important to us....  ::)

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on July 23, 2020, 04:22:13 AM
The virus is airborne, to which we all agree. The virus is about 1 micron in diameter. Even the best respirator money can buy, only filters down to about 5 microns. So when we wear a mask, how does it filter the virus?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 23, 2020, 06:49:00 AM
An article that has citations of where it got its information. The ScienceNews.org and it’s long print history has a good reputation.

In short there is evidence to support wearing masks decreases the transmission of the Covid19 virus significantly.

Only in America would wearing a simple mask be seen as taking away Freedom.

Please look closely at your personal news sources and do so with a jaundiced eye.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: bnowlin on July 23, 2020, 07:35:49 AM
The virus is airborne, to which we all agree. The virus is about 1 micron in diameter. Even the best respirator money can buy, only filters down to about 5 microns. So when we wear a mask, how does it filter the virus?

LOL it's like big football players trying to get thru the door at the same time and get stuck and die ::)

BTW Trump made China close their embassy in Houston yesterday man what a mess that was.
Bobn
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Steelhead on July 23, 2020, 07:37:09 AM
None of this is really surprising, although heartbreakingly sad. The good ol' US of A has been patting itself on the back for 80 years. National pride morphed into elitism and arrogance and what used to be 'the greatest country in the world' is now just status quo and we're all shocked to be witnessing it first hand.

We've all been taught since our earliest memories that we're the greatest, most peaceful, most educated, most profitable, best lifestyle...the list goes on and on. To even QUESTION this concept was taboo and like most I never did question it. It's gospel.

Looking through myth, theology, politics, and conditioning of our minds there are many, many facts and concepts out there that may seem obvious but to actually state them out loud is perceived as a condemnation of patriotism or even religious belief.

1) Jesus was not white. I brought that up at a family dinner and it caused a rift that lasted for years. The very intelligent people at the table couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that Christ was not teleported from Ireland and placed in the Middle east.

2) Other countries no longer 'look up' to us, and haven't for a long time. Our arrogance and self entitlement has turned us into a laughing stock.

3) Our murder/crime rate is shocking. While we try to shift focus on other countries our citizens are dying by hands of other citizens at rates that are hard to comprehend.

4) We as a people are so focused on finding blame. Blame and penance are paramount to problem solving. China 'set loose' a virus. What about Three Mile Island? Love Canal? One was an accident, the other a coverup. And we did it to ourselves.

5) School shootings. Don't have a reason for that one, but that doesn't change the fact that it occurs for too often and for the most part only here. If we're so great, how does this happen?

6) We have a television personality/media mogul/caricature for a president who spends more time tweeting about his enemies (critics) than he does actually working. For everyone laughing at Kanye West running for president, is it really any more absurd?

7) Our supposed news agencies are nothing more than a shill for the conglomerates that run them. The 'news' that comes from them is on level of a four year old. But when zealots tune in, not to be informed but to hear want they want to hear, advertising dollars are made are salaries are paid. That's really the goal, right? making money? Fox news, joke. CNN, laughable. The headline everyday cannot be what the president is tweeting, doing right, doing wrong, etc.  We eat it up like children at an ice cream party so that's what's being delivered.

8) Our president has ordered homeland security to cities and employing tear gas on citizens. Sounds pretty third world to me.

9) Cops are killing people with impunity. Only cameras have made them accountable. I acknowledge that every situation is different, things happen fast and decisions have to made. However, I'm disgusted by seeing cops abusing people while multiple LEO's stand by and do nothing. The thin blue line is nothing more than a gang simple that furthers the divide between officers who swore an oath to protect and serve and the citizens that oath protects.

Notice there's nothing in here about Covid, masks, or the like. Most of our angst is the result of infighting, misinformation, plain ol' stupidity, arrogance, and sense of unabashed entitlement. I'm embarrassed for every veteran (alive or dead) who served and fought under the US flag only to see the results of that sacrifice. Until we can climb off of our high horse, look at things objectively, and be willing to make changes instead of just typing or tweeting about them we're not going to see anything get better.

I'm not an educated man. I graduated high school by the skin of my teeth, attended junior college for a semester, and have been a blue-collar working man my whole life. However, I'm intelligent enough to NOT need a 24 hour news station, conspiracy theorists, politician's drivel, copsplaining, or a priest/minister/rabbi/cleric to tell me what's right and wrong. A little humility, patience, and the ability to LISTEN goes a long way. We Americans have been so busy TELLING everyone how great we are that we've forgotten how to actually practice what we've preached since post WWII.

Please America, can we all just grow the **** up and work together? We are not each other's enemy. My second grandchild was just born this morning and I want her to live in peace here.

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 23, 2020, 07:51:51 AM
Mike. In a recent post, you said you’ve been to Tennessee and Georgia, giving speeches and filming for your new show. Before that, you were on the road shooting for Dirty Jobs. Is it really so important to film a television show in the midst of pandemic? Is it responsible of you to encourage this kind of behavior when infection rates are spiking? Don’t you watch the news? More and more cases every day – aren’t you concerned?
Darlene Gabon
Hi Darlene
Of course, I’m concerned. I’m just not petrified.
On March 15th, the day after my part of the country was locked down, I posted a link to an interview with Dr. Michael Osterholm. I’m posting it again, because I believe you and everyone else in the country would benefit from listening carefully to what he has to say. https://bit.ly/2WLOM6o
Dr. Osterholm is the Director of Infectious Disease Research and Policy. This is the same epidemiologist who ten years ago, predicted a coronavirus would come from China and turn our country upside down. In his book “Deadliest Enemies,” he described the utterly irresponsible way in which the media would report on the situation, the completely opportunistic and shamelessly political way our leaders would likely react, and the unprecedented chaos and confusion that would arise from all the mixed messages from the medical community. His resume is unexampled, https://bit.ly/3jvzQTW, and his analysis of the situation is the most logical and persuasive of any I’d heard so far. He’s also the only expert I know of who hasn’t walked back his numbers, reconsidered his position, or moved the goalposts with regard to what we must do, what we can do, and what he expects to happen next. I say all of this because Dr. Osterholm also predicted that we could easily see 100 million COVID cases in this country, with a very strong possibility of 480,000 fatalities – even if we successfully “flattened the curve.”
It took me a few weeks to accept this scenario, because 480,000 fatalities is a frightening number, and lot of other experts were saying lots of conflicting things. But eventually, I came to the conclusion that Dr. Osterholm was probably correct, and quickly navigated the four stages of grief that usually precede acceptance – denial, anger, bargaining, and depression. By late April, I had come to accept Dr. Osterholm’s predictions as a matter of fact. Since then, I’ve had three full months to come to terms with the fact that, a) I am probably going to get COVID-19 at some point, b), I am almost certainly going to survive it, and c), I might very well give it to someone else.
I hope that doesn’t sound blasé, or glib, or fatalistic, or selfish. Four-hundred eighty thousand deaths is an obvious tragedy, and I’m deeply sympathetic to all who have been impacted thus far. I’m also very concerned for my parents, and everyone else in a high risk category. But when Dr. Osterholm says that COVID can be slowed, but not stopped, I believe him. When he says a vaccine will not necessarily hasten herd immunity, I believe him. And when he says that “flattening the curve” and eliminating the virus have nothing to do with each other, I believe him.
Thus, for the last three months, I’ve been operating from the assumption that this is a year-round virus that’s eventually going to infect 100 million people and kill roughly 1/2 of one percent of those infected. I’ve gotten used to those numbers in much the same way I’ve gotten used to the fact that 40,000 people will likely die on the highways this year. That’s why I’m not panicked or surprised by tens of thousands of daily COVID cases; I’ve been expecting them. Unfortunately, many others have not. Every day, millions of people watch the same breathless coverage by the same breathless journalists, who seem determined to do all they can to foster uncertainty. And so, millions of people are still paralyzed by fear, because they haven’t been given a chance to digest the truth, (or, what I believe to be the truth.) Fact is, we can accept almost anything if we’re given the facts, and enough time to get our heads around them. But if we don’t have an understanding of what’s really happening, we simply can’t get past denial and bargaining, where so many seem to be stuck, understandably so.
Imagine for a moment you had no idea how many people would die in car accidents this year. Now, imagine that every single accident – over six million a year in the US alone – were reported on the same way that every new COVID case is reported today. Imagine every day you were told in hysterical tones, that another 16,000 accidents had occurred, resulting in another 90 deaths per day. What would that do to your willingness to drive? Six million accidents is a lot of accidents, and 40,000 annual fatalities is a lot of death – especially if you don’t know how high that number could get. But we DO know the dangers of driving, and we’ve accepted those numbers. Consequently, we’re able to make a grown-up decision about whether or not we want to assume the associated risk of operating a motor vehicle.
Again, don’t misunderstand. I’m not ignoring COVID, and I’m not pretending the risks at hand aren’t real. I don’t want to get this disease and give it to someone else, any more than I want to be in a car wreck and hurt someone else. So, I take precautions. I get tested often. If I can’t distance, I wear a mask – especially around higher risk people. I also wear a seatbelt, obey the speed limits, and check my mirrors before changing lanes. I’m aware that we’d all be a lot safer if we kept our cars in the garage. I’m also aware we’d be a lot safer if we all kept ourselves in the house. But that’s not why cars, or people, exist.
Anyway Darlene, that’s a long way of saying that I have accepted Dr. Osterholm’s numbers, and now, after three months of acceptance, I’ve made a decision on how I wish to live my life. Sooner or later, you will too. We all will.
Mike
PS. My foundation is selling masks to raise money for our next work-ethic scholarship program. They're going fast...
https://www.bfit540.com/products/mike-rowe-works-face-mask
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Capt45 on July 23, 2020, 08:23:53 AM
Here's a very cogent easy read.   It is after all, just common sense.

https://insidescooppolitics.com/archives/2154

Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 23, 2020, 01:32:39 PM
The virus is airborne, to which we all agree. The virus is about 1 micron in diameter. Even the best respirator money can buy, only filters down to about 5 microns. So when we wear a mask, how does it filter the virus?

LOL it's like big football players trying to get thru the door at the same time and get stuck and die ::)

BTW Trump made China close their embassy in Houston yesterday man what a mess that was.
Bobn

Only it's not like big football players. It's more like a bunch of tiny football players trying to get through a door at the same time, only they're each attached to a ball roughly 100 times their size. None of them can get near to the door. That's what happens with a virus - it becomes non-viable very quickly if not attached to a water droplet, so we can count on anything infectious being attached to a water droplet. Water droplets only get so small. And thanks to surface tension, relating to electrical attraction, such droplets will tend to get caught up in the fibers of even relatively coarse, open-weave cloth. A single layer of 150 thread count cotton bandana will likely catch a huge proportion of such water droplets, coughed or sneezed into the environment by an infected person. A double layer, such as is typically worn with a typical bandana, will catch at least twice as many droplets, probably more than that owing to the confounding dynamic effects of having been pulled through the first layer. Particles scramble and slow down dramatically with the air they're borne in.

So even the simplest mask, whether a $0.50 surgical mask or a bandana or something you sewed on the old Singer out of old pillow cases, will significantly impede both ingress and egress of spitty particles. And it won't be the end of your life, your freedom, not even much of your comfort level to strap one on for a trip to the grocery store or a booze run. Seriously guys, how is a mask a crisis of American political freedom? What sort of collective insanity engenders such blather? I don't get it. Are people really so stupid as to believe a GLOBAL pandemic has ANYTHING to do with the US election? I think I can safely speak for Canada, and it appears I have Bob's nod on this one, in saying that we actually don't care all that much what you do down South so long as it isn't so stupid that it starts hurting us up here in the Northern country. Just try to be sensible, and if you can find it in yourself, avoid screaming about being forced to wear a mask at the supermarket, and even try to be a bit nice to each other. It's actually an amazing thing, being nicer to each other. It pays off, like a sensible stock market investment.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on July 23, 2020, 02:40:57 PM
Wearing a mask where I live is easy, as is distance. We don't have many people around here , we have one stop light in the whole county. Freedom is, MY CHOICE, to wear a mask , that is ok. Some politico at the .GOV telling me to, is not ok, unless it is passed as a law and can be challenged. Yes our mid level bureaucrat"s are a problem. VA for example, the mid level people are the drag that slows down the system, it is easy to say no. That is one of the reasons that the SWAMP of DC. ,hates the current white house, as they are slowly losing the power that once, they held.   But then again I"m a get"n senile. so what the heck do I know. Happy days are around the corner as are the Chinese cold war efforts, hope not hot . Still we have 8 people here test pos. for it , 2 Amish 6 regular folk. One died , but he was in his 80s and had sugar and a bad heart. So 7 still kick'n and getting better.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: steveoh on July 23, 2020, 02:50:01 PM
Wearing a mask where I live is easy, as is distance. We don't have many people around here , we have one stop light in the whole county. Freedom is, MY CHOICE, to wear a mask , that is ok. Some politico at the .GOV telling me to, is not ok, unless it is passed as a law and can be challenged. Yes our mid level bureaucrat"s are a problem. VA for example, the mid level people are the drag that slows down the system, it is easy to say no. That is one of the reasons that the SWAMP of DC. ,hates the current white house, as they are slowly losing the power that once, they held.   But then again I"m a get"n senile. so what the heck do I know. Happy days are around the corner as are the Chinese cold war efforts, hope not hot . Still we have 8 people here test pos. for it , 2 Amish 6 regular folk. One died , but he was in his 80s and had sugar and a bad heart. So 7 still kick'n and getting better.

The problem is if you are an asymptomatic carrier of Covid19 and you exercise your so called freedom to NOT wear a mask, then if you go to church, or the store, or the gas station, or your local bar, or the feed store, or the lumber store, etc then you are spreading your disease to everyone. It really boils down to having common decency to keep yourself safe while keeping others safe. If you don't get tested on a regular basis then you really don't have any idea if you are a carrier or not. Does this make sense? Just wear your mask people. If you can muster the courage to put your pants on when going out in public, then you can easily put your mask on. You sure as hell won't die from wearing the mask.

I really don't get the selfishness of people who won't wear a mask, and continually try to find some conspiracy theory of why they shouldn't, or how masks don't do a thing.  I think it's getting time to close this thread, as we just keep going around in circles.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on July 23, 2020, 03:32:16 PM
Can we at least agree it came from China?
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Gerard on July 23, 2020, 03:39:19 PM
Can we at least agree it came from China?
Pending any rather startling new information, sure, of course it came from China. And? Does something coming from China equate with anti-American political manipulations? If so... well, it might be time to close down Walmart, Target, and maybe 1,000 other retailers whose primary stock of goods for sale originate in Chinese factories.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: cpt_sfc on July 23, 2020, 03:52:17 PM
Yes I agree let's go back to japan, optics were better.
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: rsterne on July 23, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
Yep, I agree it came from China.... It may have even been studied in a lab and escaped by accident, though I think that unlikely....

Made (or modified) in a lab to destroy a lot of the world's population?.... Not a chance, IMO....

I agree, this thread has lived a useful life, but it's time to kill it....

Bob
Title: Re: Corona Virus any change to your day to day yet?
Post by: Alan on July 24, 2020, 05:06:54 AM
I agree.