The AirGun Guild

General Category => PCP, C02, and Helium Powered Airguns => Topic started by: butchb on September 15, 2018, 10:42:08 AM

Title: Starlings
Post by: butchb on September 15, 2018, 10:42:08 AM
Can someone recommend a pcp airgun I can use for starlings in my back yard at  25ft range? Reasonable price and dependable if there is such a thing. Also a place to buy it. Prefer .177   Thanks
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Alan on September 15, 2018, 11:42:48 AM
Yes. Buy a 397 or 392 Benjamin. Dead stock, they're rather quiet, and with adjustable power to boot. The only drawback is you have to pump them, but that's good for the arms.

If you look around, you can find them for as little as $165, delivered, and sometimes a bit less. You can add a scope mount, scope, a SuperSear from AoA, a barrel adapter from Alchemy Worx, and a suppressor from TKO22. Total cost hovers around $300 (spending on the scope you choose). You end up with a 50 yard tack holer! I have the 397 (.177), and the hammer falling on the valve makes more noise than the muzzle blast.

Yes, break barrels are cheaper, but they're also close to junk in comparison.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: butchb on September 15, 2018, 03:35:53 PM
How hard are they to pump? How about the Diana Stormrider for 200 bucks?looks good and has open sites. no  scope for me.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Alan on September 15, 2018, 03:45:23 PM
Not bad. The first 5 are easy. I can use extended arms, and pump mine to 8 pumps. But the fact is, 5 is almost all you ever need for stuff under 35 yards!
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: caniborrowsomeammo on September 15, 2018, 04:05:27 PM
I too have a 397 ;), I cut down the spring to lighten the trigger pull. 5 pumps at 25 feet will drive a 10 grain pellet clear through a starling. 4 would probably do the job I guess. I use open sights. It is quiet stock but adding a silencer would really hush things up I imagine.

As for a PCP you can tune most of them down as low as you want within reason(4-5 ft/lbs), getting more power out of one is where you start getting into the $$$$$. 

I'm still a fan of the Benjamin Marauder. You can't go wrong starting out with one.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: butchb on September 15, 2018, 04:39:24 PM
I'll look at that one good. What do you think of the Diana ? I know very little about any of them but the Stormrider really looks good to me.200 bucks looks like it's ready to go out of the box. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: bnowlin on September 15, 2018, 05:24:18 PM
What I wanna know is how they are you can get within 25 feet.
Bobn


BTW I can't seem to get closer that 50 yds.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: butchb on September 15, 2018, 05:32:46 PM
Don't tell anybody but i have a good hide ! :) :)
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: caniborrowsomeammo on September 15, 2018, 06:34:59 PM
The Diana is a renamed SPA- PR900W.  As far as I've heard, get the 2nd gen as the moderator and the trigger are better than the 1st gen. There is a regulator available for the gun that you can adjust down to get more shots at lower power for what you need. But you should just use it for a while to see if you like it. Someone on here should be able to help with tuning, but I haven't personally seen one nor know the adjustments.
   I would buy from Pyramyd Air as they are pretty good with returns should something not be right with it.
   If I may, I would recommend a Hill pump vs a Benjamin pump as you will need a way to fill it. Or post on the classifieds for a used pump, who knows someone may have one that they aren't using anymore.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: butchb on September 15, 2018, 06:45:44 PM
Don't even know how to fill one,thought a compressor would be the way.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: caniborrowsomeammo on September 15, 2018, 08:02:59 PM
Well.............yes a compressor is the way to go but, it has to be a high-pressure compressor i.e. 3000+ psi, not a shop compressor @ 150 psi. There are compressors out there that are $200-400, and there is a post or two on them here on The Guild.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: butchb on September 17, 2018, 10:42:32 AM
Looks like that pump handle is the way to go but not sure how strong you have to be to pump it consistently. On the other hand I like the Dianna stormrider and almost bought one from Pyramid but  then don't know if I could pump the pump verywell but I do know thos tanks are priced too damn much for me.I can still cock my break barrel that takes 40 lbs so I think I'll do that until I can't. Thanks for the input from everyone.   Art
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: caniborrowsomeammo on September 17, 2018, 12:56:17 PM
I went a year hand pumping, and I shot a lot, so I pumped a lot :o. One night in the winter time, and the wood fire was keeping the house a toasty 75 degrees I pumped the gun up, maybe 50-70 pumps and I was sweating like a greased pig. Enough I said and ordered a compressor, tank and fill station the next day. I've never looked back as my PCP's still amaze me.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: butchb on September 24, 2018, 03:39:56 PM
I've put the pcp idea on the back shelf for awhile. I can buy any of these I want but the idea of having  to buy a expensive air compressor that cost as much as a lot of good guns just doesn't set well with me. That would be the only way to go I think because the pump thingy wouldn't work for me.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Alan on September 24, 2018, 05:24:37 PM
Yes, buying a "REAL" compressor costs big bucks. There are some alternatives. Cheap Chinese units are available, as are booster pumps like the Alteros and Shoebox. But in the long run, a top notch compressor is all but a necessity. Other alternatives are dive shops, and fire departments in some smaller towns. You can even bite the bullet (pellet) and use nitrogen bottles. The truth is, all of the various systems made to refill PCP airguns have both positive and negative aspects. In the end, you'll eventually go to owning a high-pressure compressor—the least of evils. 
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Gerard on September 24, 2018, 07:02:10 PM
Here's a funny aside. All week long I've been hearing on the radio and having stories about it come up in my news feed, about how 24 starlings fell out of the sky near some guy who was out for a walk. How they were smashed into the ground, limbs broken, how this was some horrific freak of nature and how the local humane society was investigating. It's surprised me every dang time I see or hear it. I grew up in orchard country in the BC interior, where a pair of starling legs brought in to city hall got you 10 cents, and a flock of starlings meant the end of a cherry crop. We're not only absurdly far away from my childhood when I could wander around town with a pellet rifle and shoot stuff for fun, we're now so far down the social justice/nanny state road that a bunch of damned starlings dying is a catastrophe.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: butchb on September 24, 2018, 09:03:26 PM
I remember those days but  in town I lived in as a kid it was pigeons. There was pigeon crap on everything, nasty and disease spreading. Got no bounty but young boys would be up early with 
22 s loaded with shorts roaming city streets picking them off wher ever they lit with police blessing. Every one knew evertrYone else.wiped out bunches of pigeons and a few rats as well..loved those days
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Gerard on September 24, 2018, 09:29:05 PM
Apparently in some English cities such pest control is still allowed, though it's being done by licensed employees or contractors, not kids. And they have to use orange safety vests and carry ID and be very careful about upsetting the locals. Good grief. My city is being overrun by pigeons. There's a bylaw carrying a steep fine for feeding wildlife, but a lot of people do it anyway, so many of the parks and quite a few business areas are infested. There are intersections where your odds of being pooped upon while waiting at a crosswalk are about 50/50. Look up and you get it in the eye, from one of the 100 or more sitting on the power lines. Look down and you often see bread crumbs. Disgusting, the way people's obsession with cute wildlife makes for these imbalances.

We don't have any pigeon control agents, but the most frequented tourist areas at least have rat patrols with AirForce rifles. Hasn't hit the news so far, thankfully, as they're stealthy and work at night, but without their work those places would be uninhabitable for humans. Was out on a walk with my son today and we passed by a homeless camp. Saw the biggest rat I've ever encountered in person. Body had to be 14" long. And mostly bald. Not a pretty sight. Wished I could have gone home and brought by an airgun... but no, I'd probably wind up in prison for that.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Alan on September 25, 2018, 05:09:12 AM
I won't even guess how many pigeons and collared doves I've dispatched in the last 4 years or so. And HOSP (house sparrows), starlings and grackles? It has to be in the thousands! But I'm lucky.

I have several permissions just outside the city limits (exurban) replete with cattle, horses, and chickens. Anytime you have feed grain spread around, you'll have all manner of grain-eating birds. I just casually sit in my blind, and shoot everyone I can.

Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: butchb on September 25, 2018, 03:29:37 PM
That holds true with just about anything you buy. Get the cheap one first then when you buy the good one ,learned that lesson many times but still hard to do sometimes. If I get a pcp I will buy a good compressor for sure.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Gerard on September 26, 2018, 12:53:46 PM
Just to follow up on that report of 24 starlings falling dead from the sky, as reported by a guy walking his dog. The bodies were sent to a lab for post mortem work, and it was found that the starlings had all suffered massive blunt force trauma to the chest. The suggested cause, according to the lab, was that they had been impacted by a "much larger bird of prey." I had to laugh. The guy who called it in had reported seeing a massive flock, at least hundreds of birds, in a 'cloud' formation which dove straight for the ground and then veered upwards at the last moment. Um... wut? The only witness actually reported the probable cause of traumatic injury. These birds were doing their acrobatic flying routine, and some got too close to the ground. A sort of reverse Icarus moment. But the guys in the lab chalk it up to "eagles" according to the radio report. That's just weird.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Rokynutz on October 11, 2018, 11:13:23 PM
What I wanna know is how they are you can get within 25 feet.
Bobn


BTW I can't seem to get closer that 50 yds.

I agree with @bnowlin I need your kind of hide. I pest control them on dairy's here in SW Washington State....I have to shoot 40-80yrds to smack one. But, I am using a hopped up .25 Mrod.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: caniborrowsomeammo on October 13, 2018, 01:17:55 AM
Rocky and Bobn,
Have you ever thought about getting yourself a ghillie suit if you are having problems getting close? Helps to break up your outline.
Ali express has them for around $25 delivered.
Another option is a pop-up blind,  good if you don't need to move to different spots.
Or get some blind material and hang it over a fence close to where they land. 
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Alan on October 13, 2018, 03:59:37 AM
I have an Ameristep, pop-up. After you use it a few times, you learn to set it up and down in just a few seconds. The problem I have is the wind tossing it around.

The ghuillie suit is a good idea too, but they're a bit hot for this clime (SE NM). You can do almost as good with a piece of camo clothe, cut up like a poncho. My local Hobby Lobby sells the thin stuff for about $6 a yard.
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Rokynutz on October 13, 2018, 09:28:47 AM
Borrow, I do have access to a pop-up. But here in SW Washington State, it's either to hot or pissing down rain. Then it mildews. Beyond that, the permission I'm hitting hard as of late, it's a dairy. And again, with the fall rain coming in...Gillie is out of the question. Summer, WAY to hot. For me, I work the shadows with dark long sleeve shirt and a ball cap to keep my shiny face from view. The pigeons are smart and spook easy regardless. Starlings, they're smart but carnal need always wins out. I don't mind shooting out to 60-80 yrds. I will tag their feathery ass regardless with a few misses here and there. They don't fly due to the bark of my MRod. They fly from the THWACK of the pellet impacting their kin. Haha
Title: Re: Starlings
Post by: Gerard on October 13, 2018, 09:48:07 AM
I kept basic stats on rat and grey squirrel shots for three years. Used PCPs at 6fpe, 10fpe, and 20fpe. Average energy for rats was 7.3fpe. Average for squirrels was 12.7. Range for rats averaged about 6 metres and ranged between 2 and 16 metres. Average for squirrels was a little under 8 metres, ranging from 3 to 35, with most shots at 7 metres - the distance between my kitchen porch and the middle of our butternut tree where they like to spend their time.

I've found my best strategy to just observe eating sounds or motion, go get an air rifle, then casually take up a position and wait for them not to care about me. While hiding is at times useful, it seems stealth has been more important. About 10 minutes average wait time for either pest  And I usually don't even think about a second critter. Better to go back into the shop and work a while, then go check if there's another rodent around. They take 10 minutes at least to come out of hiding and go about their business after one of their own goes down. But then I haven't had to deal with anything like a major infestation. At most three squirrels in a day  usually more like one every ten days. And the worst night for rats was when a neighbour had a chicken coop with a messy feeder and I got five rats one night. After she built a spill-proof feeder the population went way down. Only 6 rats so far this year. I can certainly see how a camo suit or a hide would be critical for large scale jobs where you're sitting for hours and dealing with a dozen or more.