If you were an airgunning Ukrainian

[steveoh]

If you were an airgunning Ukrainian What would you do to fight the Russian Army?

I thought about this here and there today. As I shot my M3 I thought it would be awesome to harass the Ruskies with a quiet 60 FPE M3 and a quiet 160 fpe Texan. Target their nuts or their feet. Feet and nuts are very tender, and either Airgun would do significant damage, and make for some hilarious moments and totally screw with Russian morale.

Then I consider the big bores with heavy lead, and arrows with broad heads. Holy terror!

Anyway, I'm a bad man for thinking about such things.

[Frank in Fairfield]

They have powder burners Steve.
They are also using the arms when they kill a Russian.

There is a large bunch of Airgunners in Ukraine as they sell parts on eBay..
The Afghans defeated them with muzzleloader and the Ukraines will too.

The question is this:

Why did the Ukraines run away?
Looking for a trip to the USA?
That seems to be the normal outcome.

If the USA is attacked do we run away?
Where? Mexico? Canada?

Stand and fight.

I hope the anti-gunners in the USA are watching what is happening there and re-evaluate their agenda!

[steveoh]

Yep Frank, I know they have center fire rifles of probably many varieties. My point was if you are already there and you have some powerful and quiet airguns you could use them to harass and do some damage all while being undetected. There is value to that whether you are poking holes in supply truck windows or humans. It's been claimed that many of these Russian soldiers are poorly trained and many are just not fighting because they actually like Ukraine (a vacation destination of Russians). Give them more reason to throw up their hands.

The Ukrainians are hugely outgunned and Russians are not using peashooters. One weapon they are using is particularly barbaric and evil:

Thermobaric weapons, sometimes called vacuum bombs, use powdered metal to create a rapidly expanding fireball. Under international law, they must only be used against military targets, not civilians.

With a population of around 41 million approximately 1 million have fled the country. We're probably talking mostly those who can't fight, elderly, women and children, and those who just can't deal with the death and destruction all around them.

I saw a video of several hundred unarmed Ukrainians blocking a road from a Russian column. That ain't cut and run.

The Ukrainians are showing incredible strength and resolve and to criticize that resolve is pretty petty even from arm chair warriors.

I am anything but anti gun, but I am anti stupid people owning guns. You feel scared? Fine, apply for a conceal permit but be trained and be of sound mind. Want to walk around town with an AR15 slung on your shoulder and go to the bank, movie theater, Charbucks, or the donut shop? Then you need your head examined, because you are stupid, a danger to yourself and society, an attention whore and an asshole to boot.

There's a good portion of this country itching for a civil war so they can use their stockpile to defend some skewed idea of what freedom is. To those so called self described patriots, pack up your shit and go to Ukraine and volunteer for combat to defend a democracy that refuses to go back under Russian dictatorship.

I stand with Ukraine and send a middle finger salute to Putin and anyone who supports him.

[Frank in Fairfield]

Videos I have seen show men in their 20s-40s.
Arriving Berlin now.

[steveoh]

Videos I have seen show men in their 20s-40s.
Arriving Berlin now.

Well, do you know their medical history? Mental health status? Are they Ukrainian or from some other country? Lot of unknowns. I say that 1 million out of 41 million is a tiny number. I give people benefit of doubt when it comes to fleeing war.

1st rule in Jujutsu in real life dangerous situations is to avoid the situation in the first place. 2nd rule is there is no shame in running away from danger that is sure to injure or kill you. 3rd rule is if you have no way to avoid the danger then use any and all tools at your disposal to stay safe and alive, and to do so overwhelmingly. 4th rule is to use only what is needed to stay safe, or in other words avoid unnecessary damage to your assailant(s). If you broke his leg and he's out of commission then don't break his neck. 

[Alan]

Discretion has always been the best part o valor!

[kkarmical]

If you were an airgunning Ukrainian What would you do to fight the Russian Army?

I thought about this here and there today. As I shot my M3 I thought it would be awesome to harass the Ruskies with a quiet 60 FPE M3 and a quiet 160 fpe Texan. Target their nuts or their feet. Feet and nuts are very tender, and either Airgun would do significant damage, and make for some hilarious moments and totally screw with Russian morale.

Then I consider the big bores with heavy lead, and arrows with broad heads. Holy terror!

Anyway, I'm a bad man for thinking about such things.

Out of everything I've seen about this Ukraine business, this may be the single worst idea.
We're talking urban city,someone We're to engage advancing troops with a airgun could end up bringing in an artillery or air strike down on the general direction the airgun sniper can be determined. 
Risk vs reward you'd cause more damage than inflict injury, imo.

[Frank in Fairfield]

If you were an airgunning Ukrainian What would you do to fight the Russian Army?

I thought about this here and there today. As I shot my M3 I thought it would be awesome to harass the Ruskies with a quiet 60 FPE M3 and a quiet 160 fpe Texan. Target their nuts or their feet. Feet and nuts are very tender, and either Airgun would do significant damage, and make for some hilarious moments and totally screw with Russian morale.

Then I consider the big bores with heavy lead, and arrows with broad heads. Holy terror!

Anyway, I'm a bad man for thinking about such things.

Out of everything I've seen about this Ukraine business, this may be the single worst idea.
We're talking urban city,someone We're to engage advancing troops with a airgun could end up bringing in an artillery or air strike down on the general direction the airgun sniper can be determined. 
Risk vs reward you'd cause more damage than inflict injury, imo.

A voice of reason.
Thank you Ken

[steveoh]

If you were an airgunning Ukrainian What would you do to fight the Russian Army?

I thought about this here and there today. As I shot my M3 I thought it would be awesome to harass the Ruskies with a quiet 60 FPE M3 and a quiet 160 fpe Texan. Target their nuts or their feet. Feet and nuts are very tender, and either Airgun would do significant damage, and make for some hilarious moments and totally screw with Russian morale.

Then I consider the big bores with heavy lead, and arrows with broad heads. Holy terror!

Anyway, I'm a bad man for thinking about such things.

Out of everything I've seen about this Ukraine business, this may be the single worst idea.
We're talking urban city,someone We're to engage advancing troops with a airgun could end up bringing in an artillery or air strike down on the general direction the airgun sniper can be determined. 
Risk vs reward you'd cause more damage than inflict injury, imo.

I'm confused. Someone with an airgun would do more damage by their actions by inviting an air strike, than say a sniper with a very loud rifle?  What difference does it make? Desperate times means folks have to use what they have whether it be a 12 gauge shotgun, 30-30 deer rifle, .22 LR, .308 rifle, handgun, .50cal rifle, giant sling shots to lob Molotov cocktails etc. There are weapons shortages according to some reports. So use what you got.

 

[kkarmical]

If you were an airgunning Ukrainian What would you do to fight the Russian Army?

I thought about this here and there today. As I shot my M3 I thought it would be awesome to harass the Ruskies with a quiet 60 FPE M3 and a quiet 160 fpe Texan. Target their nuts or their feet. Feet and nuts are very tender, and either Airgun would do significant damage, and make for some hilarious moments and totally screw with Russian morale.

Then I consider the big bores with heavy lead, and arrows with broad heads. Holy terror!

Anyway, I'm a bad man for thinking about such things.

Out of everything I've seen about this Ukraine business, this may be the single worst idea.
We're talking urban city,someone We're to engage advancing troops with a airgun could end up bringing in an artillery or air strike down on the general direction the airgun sniper can be determined. 
Risk vs reward you'd cause more damage than inflict injury, imo.

I'm confused. Someone with an airgun would do more damage by their actions by inviting an air strike, than say a sniper with a very loud rifle?  What difference does it make? Desperate times means folks have to use what they have whether it be a 12 gauge shotgun, 30-30 deer rifle, .22 LR, .308 rifle, handgun, .50cal rifle, giant sling shots to lob Molotov cocktails etc. There are weapons shortages according to some reports. So use what you got.

 

The major difference is that any actual firearm or anything that could is truly lethal, would actually be causing damages thus the trade off with the air strike etc would be worth the risk.

There's no way you could ever convince me that an airgun would be an acceptable weapon to use against an advancing organized military force, especially one that has a full arsenal of going to war weapons.

While I feel the passion, let's be real.

[Alan]

We need to remember, that one of the first airguns (Girandoni) was used to great success by the Austrian army in the early 1800s.

[Frank in Fairfield]

Ken,
They are confused because, unlike you, they have never been in a situation where their lives and the lives of their friends were on the line......COMBAT

[steveoh]

I can't help but recall hearing stories about various wars, where folks ran out of ammo or rifles jammed, and how an entrenching tool or a rock came into play in an up close and personal situation.

The Ukrainians certainly understand as they are making up Molotov cocktails as hard and fast as they can. Who-da-thunk that a simple bottle of petrol would help destroy a tank or the morale of a tank crew? $1 worth of gas, in a glass bottle, and piece of rag against a multi million dollar Russian Tank. In moments of desperation, Improvise or Die.

I guarantee you this. I can take any of my big bore air rifles and out to a hundred + yards a lead bullet will go in one side of a "deer" and out the other. That includes the .257, .357, .458, and .58. I'd say that was lethal, or would at the very least take an enemy out of action. It's as though folks are stuck on the idea that you have to have 3500 fps and massive fpe to hunt or defend yourself.

From 2012: https://www.wired.com/2012/11/subsonic-bullets/

[kkarmical]

I can't help but recall hearing stories about various wars, where folks ran out of ammo or rifles jammed, and how an entrenching tool or a rock came into play in an up close and personal situation.

The Ukrainians certainly understand as they are making up Molotov cocktails as hard and fast as they can. Who-da-thunk that a simple bottle of petrol would help destroy a tank or the morale of a tank crew? $1 worth of gas, in a glass bottle, and piece of rag against a multi million dollar Russian Tank. In moments of desperation, Improvise or Die.

I guarantee you this. I can take any of my big bore air rifles and out to a hundred + yards a lead bullet will go in one side of a "deer" and out the other. That includes the .257, .357, .458, and .58. I'd say that was lethal, or would at the very least take an enemy out of action. It's as though folks are stuck on the idea that you have to have 3500 fps and massive fpe to hunt or defend yourself.

From 2012: https://www.wired.com/2012/11/subsonic-bullets/

So you with a airgun and 150 yards vs professional soldier with latest going to war gear, and you honestly feel that will to fight is more important that technology  and superior weapons and actual military training..

Again while I can appreciate the passion and resolve, it's not realistic.

[Alan]

I've been rethinking about this issue for several days. There has been reports about two Ukrainian snipers, one of which killed one of Russia's leading generals (yesterday as I write this). I don't know the distance, but we should recognize, that an airgun allows you to get closer to your target, and not be heard by the target if you miss.