Author Topic: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem  (Read 180 times)

maddoghutty

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Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« on: November 03, 2021, 02:25:39 PM »
Hi Bob and too everyone on the forum, i noticed my artmis m16 alpha .22 UK 12 FTLBS had dropped consistency where it was extremly consistent before with a high of 8fps through a shot string, so i ran it over the chronograph and it was shooting all over the place going from 11.5ftlbs upto 20ftlbs. For a regulated Uk rifle i dont think this should be happening. So i could really do with some help to rebuild the regulator on my artemis m16alpha or atleast any other troubleshooting methods which might be causing this issue and would be able to fix. So any help on the forum would be most welcome or if you can run me a step by step solution to fix this this problem which i could follow would be most welcome. As i am currently out of work, and the last rifle i sent in to be retuned cost me £120 which at present i dont have. With me been out of work and been a fulltime carer for my ill father, my rifle is the only break time to myself i have but with this problem are now unable to use due to it been unconsitent and going over the UK legal limit i will only run it over the chrony to try and fix untill this remedied . So i could really do with your help guys to get this problem fixed thankyou.


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rsterne

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2021, 02:40:56 PM »
Sorry, I am not at all familiar with this rifle.... Perhaps you may get another response, but you may be better to post this question in the PCP Section of this Forum....

Bob
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maddoghutty

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2021, 03:24:44 PM »
Thx Hopefully someone may respond still i thought you would still no from other rifles you have dealt with bob that is the reason i posted to yourself anyway if you have any ideas please let me know thanks.
  • Kingston upon Hull, England

rsterne

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2021, 03:34:34 PM »
Generally, instability in velocity is due to the hammer strike being inconsistent.... It could be a regulator problem, but I have never run into that.... Remove the hammer, clean it and the tube, lube lightly and replace....

Bob
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Alan

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2021, 03:34:50 PM »
It is only a guess on my part, but if I were in your position, I'd contact Vector Air (https://www.vector-air.co.uk). I suspect they'll have some idea where to start looking for the issue. If it is the regulator, they may be able to makes suggestions.
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Alan

I have a Hill EC-3000 compressor. If you're a fellow Guild member, and you pass through Roswell, NM, I'll fill your tank as a courtesy (4,250 PSI limit).

maddoghutty

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2021, 03:43:24 PM »
Hi guys i made a tool to remove the regulator and i did a rebuild on the reg didnt get time to test tonight so ill run it through thechrony tomorrow and hopefully that will have sorted it out all be in well. I will post some pics tomorrow of the reg tear down and rebuild i followed one off the reg rebuilds which fx did on youtube which was informative and restacked the bellvilles to their combination which was the same has they already where. I also give the bellville washers a 300 grit light sand just to remove the grud of them and then with a polishing wheel to finish off. I would of gone to a thousand grit but had run out. Ill redo the bellville washers at a later date. Just wanted to get the reg rebuilt so i could test tomorrow ill update the post with my shot string has long has everything goes to plan so thx guys.
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quyang

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2021, 12:48:51 AM »
你好我的朋友,我不了解你这个型号。Hello friends, I don’t know your model. But according to the general working principle of PCP. Your problem is likely to be caused by a too small decompression space and a mismatched hammer spring. Because the spring will gradually decrease in elastic force as it is used, and then stabilize (in this process you adjusted your spring to make it too strong). Your rate is gradually increasing. It looks like a design defect of the pressure reducer. As the pressure at the cylinder end becomes lower, the pressure at the low pressure end becomes higher. The force of your spring and hammer is too large, resulting in higher and higher output kinetic energy. It is recommended that you lower your spring and hammer. Find a new balance.

It is only recommended, I hope you can adjust it according to the actual situation of your PCP.

rsterne

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2021, 09:34:45 AM »
Properly selected and adjusted springs should never lose a significant amount of their strength during use.... I always "set" all springs I use by compressing them FULLY to coil bind a few times (over a rod to keep them straight).... This insures that subsequent use cannot collapse them further.... Some factory hammer springs (which are often not set), if adjusted too tight will decrease in length.... Subsequent to that, they will have less force....

Having said that, once adjusted to a given setting, unless the spring is on the verge of its yield limit, it should not get weaker with age.... Inconsistency in velocity is nearly always caused by inconsistency in the hammer strike, often due to dirt or grit.... or lube changes with temperature.... In a regulated PCP, you can "tune out" this tendency by careful attention to where on the curve of velocity vs. hammer strike you are operating.... To far up on the plateau, or too far down on the downslope, both cause problems.... You need to tune to the "sweet spot" on the knee of the adjustment curve....

Bob
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rsterne

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2021, 09:35:46 AM »
Properly selected and adjusted springs should never lose a significant amount of their strength during use.... I always "set" all springs I use by compressing them FULLY to coil bind a few times (over a rod to keep them straight).... This insures that subsequent use cannot collapse them further.... Some factory hammer springs (which are often not set), if adjusted too tight will decrease in length.... Subsequent to that, they will have less force....

Having said that, once adjusted to a given setting, unless the spring is on the verge of its yield limit, it should not get weaker with age.... Inconsistency in velocity is nearly always caused by inconsistency in the hammer strike, often due to dirt or grit.... or lube changes with temperature.... In a regulated PCP, you can "tune out" this tendency by careful attention to where on the curve of velocity vs. hammer strike you are operating.... To far up on the plateau, or too far down on the downslope, both cause problems.... You need to tune to the "sweet spot" on the knee of the adjustment curve....

https://airgunguild.com/ask-bob/tuning-a-regulated-pcp/

Bob
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quyang

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2021, 05:53:59 PM »
Yes BOB, we are expressing one thing. The springs of mass-produced PCP are always installed in the PCP in a hurry. These springs have not undergone a relaxation process. Forgive this bad translation. Let me elaborate. I used an electronic dynamometer to analyze about 20 springs for more than a month. When the spring was just bought back, its elasticity was higher. In the process of compression and storage, the elasticity is constantly shrinking. After being compressed and stored for about 300 hours, the elasticity is basically stable. In the days to come, there will be a very slight slow weakening of the elasticity.

He increased at this regular rate. It should be divided into two situations.
If it changes after one inflation. For example, after full gas, the cylinder is 30MPA. The speed is 2XX, and the shooting continues until the cylinder is 20MPA, and the speed becomes 2XX+XX. The next inflation will repeat. This is a tuning problem. Need to adjust the hammer, spring, and decompression pressure.

If it was the last time it was inflated, and the speed was 2XX, the overall shooting process was very stable. This time it becomes 2XX+X. The drop point is changed. Next time it is 2XX+X+X again. This situation is probably caused by the continuous increase in hammer speed after the loss of lubricating oil.


Finally, on the issue of lubrication of this hammer, I would like to have a more in-depth exchange with you. I have tested the closely matched hammers and guide rails. The difference in diameter is 0.05 mm. The performance is extremely poor. Inability to adapt to changes in temperature. And changes in lubricants. Dry lubrication does not work either. As the diameter difference gradually increases, the ability to resist temperature changes is getting higher and higher. When the diameter difference increases to 0.2 mm, the temperature and lubricating oil difference in many cases can be ignored, but there are still problems. At this time, the speed measurement performance is 206+-0.3m/S, and the speed measurement performance is excellent. Until it increases to a diameter difference of 0.5 mm. At this time, I have ignored temperature changes and given up all means of lubrication. I found that as long as there is oil, it will affect the speed. At this time, my speed fluctuation is 222+-1M/S.

rsterne

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2021, 09:51:52 AM »
If I were getting +- 1 m/s shot strings, I would not be looking for a problem....

Bob
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quyang

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2021, 04:53:49 PM »
HELLO ,BOB

  This is one of our major differences. I think the error in speed is extremely important. I will elaborate on my point of view later.

Alan

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Re: Artemis M16 Alpha .22 Rifle Problem
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2021, 05:02:48 PM »
If you managed to shoot a 100 shot string, all at say 900 FPS, that fact alone, does not assure a perfect target, even if the gun is held in a vice. The reasons are obvious, if we stop and think about internal ballistics.
  • Roswell, New Mexico
Alan

I have a Hill EC-3000 compressor. If you're a fellow Guild member, and you pass through Roswell, NM, I'll fill your tank as a courtesy (4,250 PSI limit).