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Author Topic: Texan 308 world recored  (Read 1762 times)

oldpro

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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2017, 08:09:34 PM »
 Sounds like we can end this debate with a hand full of bullets
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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2017, 05:28:06 AM »
Sounds like we can end this debate with a hand full of bullets
Yes, Very simple shout up and shoot L.O.L.
The silence from the keyboard Kings is speaking volumes. 8)
David
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rsterne

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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2017, 08:12:13 AM »
I'm still waiting for you to offer even a shred of proof that the BC of your bullet was measured using the G7 standard.... particularly on such an old (discontinued) bullet design.... Alternately, we need to see some Chrony readings to determine how much the bullet is slowing at 100 and 200 yards, so that the actual BC can be calculated using whatever standard suits the shape.... I tried to explain that you can't just "choose" to assume that the BC is the G7 standard without some proof, but you refuse to provide it....

Seems to me the silence from the keyboard is yours, because you have no such proof to show us.... It is you making wild claims that your bullet outperforms all other known bullets, time to pony up some proof, IMO.... Incidently, I found the BC of the RCBS 180 - SP (GC) it is 0.293 measured to the G1 standard.... NOT the G7 standard....

Bob
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:21:51 AM by rsterne »
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nielsenammo

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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2017, 08:39:32 AM »
Bob, I posted on your thread on GTA asking about fpe of Texan .308.  I bought these bullets off Midway yesterday and I will shoot them past the Labradar and measure the BC.  Dave won't be silent on the keyboard, he even shoots 1100 yards from one.

Yesterday I shot a crow at the farm.  I should go back and get it because I think Dave may be hungry.
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rifle 50

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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2017, 04:14:12 PM »
Sounds like we can end this debate with a hand full of bullets
Yes, Very simple shout up and shoot L.O.L.
The silence from the keyboard Kings is speaking volumes. 8)
David

I gave lengthy answer to many of your questions last evening  Reply #28 on: July 20, 2017, 08:03:32 PM

Haven't heard a world in response??????????????

Carl
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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2017, 05:31:10 PM »
I'm still waiting for you to offer even a shred of proof that the BC of your bullet was measured using the G7 standard.... particularly on such an old (discontinued) bullet design.... Alternately, we need to see some Chrony readings to determine how much the bullet is slowing at 100 and 200 yards, so that the actual BC can be calculated using whatever standard suits the shape.... I tried to explain that you can't just "choose" to assume that the BC is the G7 standard without some proof, but you refuse to provide it....

Seems to me the silence from the keyboard is yours, because you have no such proof to show us.... It is you making wild claims that your bullet outperforms all other known bullets, time to pony up some proof, IMO.... Incidently, I found the BC of the RCBS 180 - SP (GC) it is 0.293 measured to the G1 standard.... NOT the G7 standard....

Bob
BOB
RCBS is the one quoting .271 bc WHY ARE YOU ARGUING ABOUT THE .271 BC .RCBS is the largest reloading manufacture in the world,
RCBS will always have more resources then you of I will ever have why can't you accept the fact?
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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2017, 05:41:43 PM »
Bob is waiting, as well as the rest of us, that the BC is a G7 BC.  Nobody questioning if the BC is .2XX, the question is the standard for that BC used in the calcs for G1 or G7.
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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2017, 05:47:28 PM »
David,

I will answer some  of your quotes........"I  do not believe you have put more bullets down range but you may I average over 100,000 shots per year for the last 30 years what is your shot count per year? "

I said i have shot MORE LEAD ON STEEL WITH AIRGUN at  DISTANCE!!   You make lead bullets and MOST ARE NOT SHOT WITH THE TEXAN or and airgun..... I have been shooting for 67 years, Last 30 at 1000 yds, from 50 bmg at RATON NM at yearly championship matches. Also F-Class. I just shoot and have no idea of the tens of thousands of rds shot.

"I do believe the proof is in the recovered bullets you have perfect mushroom bullets at what distance?"

Picture says. 1065 yds and other pic I found was 800 yds. Beyond 600 yds on steel perfect mushrooms. Below 600 yds it is DUST

""what is your trajectory at 1108 yards very simple question.
I do not see this in the recovered bullets you are posting here, I see a slight downward smear on bullets nose there is no way they were recovered at 1108 yards unless you were 100 yards below said target""

Yes my impact zone is maybe 35 feet above firing line. On the bullets you question, on steel plate (1065yds) i set plate leaning forward to deflect bullets DOWN,  as a prior trip plate was verticle and when I got home  video was glared out as sun on white paint washed it  out. On the next time out, and is 140 mi trip to my long range, I did tilt steel plate just a tad to far forward of verticle, and it sent hits right to the base and as you suggest they dropping in exaggerated the degree. About 35*angle, dropping in and plate FORWARD LEANING. I include a FRAME from Video of 1108 yd bullets, watch video and at end I shoot them in dirt.

At 1108 yds My  COLD SHOT 300 MOAB was at 298 MOA.

""I do believe it is funny you chose this forum to call me a phony .""

You need to COMPREHEND what you read......No where did I call you a  phony. I NEVER said you didn't make the shot. I DO NOT BELIEVE the G7 Hold Over numbers at all.......I didn't respond to all your slurs to West Coast Residents on GTA and those who didn't agree with you, as I knew that thread was headed for DELETE .

I found it funny in that GTA thread that because I wasn't at gun in video that it didn't happen... Yet you post a still of 3 shots on a plate and is exclusive proof??  For your information a camera on shooter and another at target isn't proof either.......The camera close up on target when in editing software can be timed at editing with shooter firing, and be only 100 yds .......So can be faked too.......Witnesses as you suggest.  I HAVE THEM on MOST of my videos I had one of two friends that wanted and liked to watch most times out. If you searched the 1065 yd video, at end one of my friends who was in the pits and when I radioed I was coming down he ran to look at target which is up the hillside above impact berm and is in video as I left it in. On the 1108 video first time last year the valley was so full of smoke from  all western fires. I could see impact zone with naked eye, set up and fired at zone without target up, and scope compressed all the polutants in air and could NOT SEE DUST AT IMPACT. I had witness with me.....Didn't shoot and several days later inversion layer lifted to be able to see but friend had to work and didn't have one that day.....That is fine as I started the long range quest over 2 years ago to see how far air could go. Never shot an airgun before.......When I got to 500 meters I was amazed and started setting camera at target to put on my Channel of all the Jazz/Ragtime music i had and my interested friends. After or before  shooting I show target view from the bench and how far it is. If  someone doesn't believe me that is fine. I know I did it, and my friends have seen me do it and I am satisfied as I did it  to please ME!! And then I shared with others.......At 76 yrs old I don't much care....

Why would I care to drive and see you do it. I know it can be done and soon I will be to 1000 yds with my .45 TEXAN and 384 gr and 412 gr bullets.....Video of 4" clays at 600 yds so far.... 

Pics i FOUND of spent hits on STEEL  First 1108 and next was 905 yds on steel.....

Cheers  Carl
BLA BLA BLA    Why will you not give  your trajectory for your supposed 1108 shot  with a .257 ?
Very simple question my 1107 target measure 1.34 MOA what size is 1.34 Moa in inches ?
David
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DAVID

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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2017, 06:22:52 PM »
Bob is waiting, as well as the rest of us, that the BC is a G7 BC.  Nobody questioning if the BC is .2XX, the question is the standard for that BC used in the calcs for G1 or G7.

You simply do not understand Ballistics do you?
G1 is when you have a flat base IE you put the gas check in the  lead bullet this is a G1 ( flat base with pointed nose bullet)
If you leave the gas check off you have a rebated boat tail  G7 (is for modern American boat tail with pointed nose bullet  not rebated boat tails) 
Both G1 AND G7 are for jacketed bullets not lead very simple NO LEAD data.
Now Bob will have to tell you there is no modern BALLISTIC program for rebated BT,  ZIP, O, NODDA, NO PROGRAM AVAIL .
So we have to use what is available and modify the figures with live fire very simple the fact sheet will give you a starting point for the yardage you are trying to shoot.
BBT BULLET MOLDS ( Bobs boat tail ) are using rebated boat tails, not modern American boat tails as found on all American jacketed bullets.
Bob is not a American he is Canadian and this  OLD European BT is what he is familiar with.
Just simple facts. ;D
David
 
 
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rifle 50

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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2017, 07:09:54 PM »
David,

I will answer some  of your quotes........"I  do not believe you have put more bullets down range but you may I average over 100,000 shots per year for the last 30 years what is your shot count per year? "

I said i have shot MORE LEAD ON STEEL WITH AIRGUN at  DISTANCE!!   You make lead bullets and MOST ARE NOT SHOT WITH THE TEXAN or and airgun..... I have been shooting for 67 years, Last 30 at 1000 yds, from 50 bmg at RATON NM at yearly championship matches. Also F-Class. I just shoot and have no idea of the tens of thousands of rds shot.

"I do believe the proof is in the recovered bullets you have perfect mushroom bullets at what distance?"

Picture says. 1065 yds and other pic I found was 800 yds. Beyond 600 yds on steel perfect mushrooms. Below 600 yds it is DUST

""what is your trajectory at 1108 yards very simple question.
I do not see this in the recovered bullets you are posting here, I see a slight downward smear on bullets nose there is no way they were recovered at 1108 yards unless you were 100 yards below said target""

Yes my impact zone is maybe 35 feet above firing line. On the bullets you question, on steel plate (1065yds) i set plate leaning forward to deflect bullets DOWN,  as a prior trip plate was verticle and when I got home  video was glared out as sun on white paint washed it  out. On the next time out, and is 140 mi trip to my long range, I did tilt steel plate just a tad to far forward of verticle, and it sent hits right to the base and as you suggest they dropping in exaggerated the degree. About 35*angle, dropping in and plate FORWARD LEANING. I include a FRAME from Video of 1108 yd bullets, watch video and at end I shoot them in dirt.

At 1108 yds My  COLD SHOT 300 MOAB was at 298 MOA.

""I do believe it is funny you chose this forum to call me a phony .""

You need to COMPREHEND what you read......No where did I call you a  phony. I NEVER said you didn't make the shot. I DO NOT BELIEVE the G7 Hold Over numbers at all.......I didn't respond to all your slurs to West Coast Residents on GTA and those who didn't agree with you, as I knew that thread was headed for DELETE .

I found it funny in that GTA thread that because I wasn't at gun in video that it didn't happen... Yet you post a still of 3 shots on a plate and is exclusive proof??  For your information a camera on shooter and another at target isn't proof either.......The camera close up on target when in editing software can be timed at editing with shooter firing, and be only 100 yds .......So can be faked too.......Witnesses as you suggest.  I HAVE THEM on MOST of my videos I had one of two friends that wanted and liked to watch most times out. If you searched the 1065 yd video, at end one of my friends who was in the pits and when I radioed I was coming down he ran to look at target which is up the hillside above impact berm and is in video as I left it in. On the 1108 video first time last year the valley was so full of smoke from  all western fires. I could see impact zone with naked eye, set up and fired at zone without target up, and scope compressed all the polutants in air and could NOT SEE DUST AT IMPACT. I had witness with me.....Didn't shoot and several days later inversion layer lifted to be able to see but friend had to work and didn't have one that day.....That is fine as I started the long range quest over 2 years ago to see how far air could go. Never shot an airgun before.......When I got to 500 meters I was amazed and started setting camera at target to put on my Channel of all the Jazz/Ragtime music i had and my interested friends. After or before  shooting I show target view from the bench and how far it is. If  someone doesn't believe me that is fine. I know I did it, and my friends have seen me do it and I am satisfied as I did it  to please ME!! And then I shared with others.......At 76 yrs old I don't much care....

Why would I care to drive and see you do it. I know it can be done and soon I will be to 1000 yds with my .45 TEXAN and 384 gr and 412 gr bullets.....Video of 4" clays at 600 yds so far.... 

Pics i FOUND of spent hits on STEEL  First 1108 and next was 905 yds on steel.....

Cheers  Carl
BLA BLA BLA    Why will you not give  your trajectory for your supposed 1108 shot  with a .257 ?
Very simple question my 1107 target measure 1.34 MOA what size is 1.34 Moa in inches ?
David

I gave you the TRAJECTORY which is the ARC of bullet travel, and was 298 moa.......

You are giving GROUP measurements in moa, of supposed 3 shots and I read you said a 4th shot missed, How does that figure in to the average????  I  put 12 shots on the plate.

Also I have shot in NM wind at RATON many times, and you shooting as you  said with gusting 10-25 mph winds with an airgun. Put a 5 shot group on that plate with some video..........Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn now and again.....

G1 specs for that lead bullet give around 29.3" of lateral movement for EACH MPH of wind change, FULL VALUE at 25 mph, and 1100 yds...... Airgun speeds..And you had 10-25 mph GUSTING........You miss wind call of 1 mph alone and see how groups get larger?

The more you open your mouth the more you prove how FULL OF IT you are.........

I didn't answer on GTA as I know trying to talk to and individual with your antagonistic mindset is futile and a total waste.

Good day sir...............Carl
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 08:40:45 PM by rifle 50 »
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nielsenammo

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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2017, 07:57:49 PM »
Bob is waiting, as well as the rest of us, that the BC is a G7 BC.  Nobody questioning if the BC is .2XX, the question is the standard for that BC used in the calcs for G1 or G7.

You simply do not understand Ballistics do you?
G1 is when you have a flat base IE you put the gas check in the  lead bullet this is a G1 ( flat base with pointed nose bullet)
If you leave the gas check off you have a rebated boat tail  G7 (is for modern American boat tail with pointed nose bullet  not rebated boat tails) 
Both G1 AND G7 are for jacketed bullets not lead very simple NO LEAD data.
Now Bob will have to tell you there is no modern BALLISTIC program for rebated BT,  ZIP, O, NODDA, NO PROGRAM AVAIL .
So we have to use what is available and modify the figures with live fire very simple the fact sheet will give you a starting point for the yardage you are trying to shoot.
BBT BULLET MOLDS ( Bobs boat tail ) are using rebated boat tails, not modern American boat tails as found on all American jacketed bullets.
Bob is not a American he is Canadian and this  OLD European BT is what he is familiar with.
Just simple facts. ;D
David
 

I am surprised that you do not understand ballistics quite frankly.  No problem with you using a G7 calculator.  However, not knowing you can not use the G1 BC is comical.  Here is a snippet from Berger Bullets who we can all agree makes some of the best high quality bullets available in the US and have good reference material.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/a-better-ballistic-coefficient/

Quote
Why were we stuck with G1 for so long?
One obvious difference between G1 BCs and G7 BCs is that the numeric value of the G7 BC is lower than the numeric value of the G1 BC. For example, if a bullet has a G1 BC of .550, the G7 BC will be close to .282 (same bullet). Even though the G7 BC of .282 is a much more accurate representation of the bullet at all speeds, the numeric value of the G7 BC is lower.

Quote
Using the G7 BC: Calculating trajectories
Most modern ballistics programs are being created with the ability to use BCs that are referenced to different standards (G1, G5, G7, etc). Calculating a trajectory with a G7 BC is as simple as selecting “G7 BC” in the program, and giving the program a G7 BC instead of a G1 BC.

This seems to suggest that the two numbers for G1 and G7 are different.  That sounds familiar, that's what Bob said.  So you do not understand, everyone else here does.

I have no doubt all Carl's video and hits are 100% real.  He has broadened my thinking about airguns and bullets.  I am sure glad he go into airguns.

The fact you do not understand how to use these programs, should be embarrassing to you.  Plain and simple.  You put a G1 BC into a G7 calculator which produced outrageously great numbers.  You did not even shoot the 1100 yard shot, that is clear.  You calculated everything, showed a metal target with hits on it and tried to pass it on as you shooting it at 1100 yards.  That's why you think a 10 year old can do it.  They can use a keyboard, so they can also make the same shot you did since you also shot with a keyboard.

Bob caught it right away and called you out.  If you had not used the wrong BC, using a G1 BC for a G7 calculation, you may have got away with it.  Then all your math would have worked out. Instead, your math is way off meaning no way you took those shots with those clicks.  Luckily for the airgun community, Bob caught your mistake and called you out.  You are trapped in a lie and no way out.  Disgraceful.  Fraudulent.


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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2017, 08:29:13 PM »
Quote
You simply do not understand Ballistics do you?

David, right back at ya'.... You cannot use a G1 Ballistics Coefficient in a calculator set up for G7.... As I stated earlier, if the BC (G1) is 0.271 at your velocity the BC (G7) you have to use in a G7 calculator is 0.118....

In case you missed it, here is the calculator to convert G1 to G7.... http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmgf-5.1.cgi

Bob
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oldpro

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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2017, 10:53:39 AM »
 Most websites would close this topic down but Im not going to till we find out whos right and whos wrong here but lets keep it somewhat friendly till then please. The answers are coming.
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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2017, 03:12:31 PM »
Quote
833 clicks up 1/4 inch  = 2289.2 inches  ft lbs at 1100 yds is 217

This is your firing solution, 833 clicks or 208 MOA?  I'm sorry if I missed it what is your zero distance?

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Re: Texan 308 world recored
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2017, 04:25:02 PM »
I have read all this and find it quite entertaining, stating a "world record" may have set you up for criticism, I'm sure you never planned on that. I think a world record should have some proof other than a few photographs...just a thought. I have seen Carl's videos and know the guy can shoot not only from that but from people I know that have actually witnessed it. When I see this "World Record" all over Facebook and the internet it kinda bothers me because it proves people will believe anything they read. Sorry to be blatantly honest in what many are thinking of this. Positive note this thread has already given some good thoughts and info...Awsome to have a place to discuss things like this. I think a different title may have taken this in a more forgiving direction! 🙂
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