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Author Topic: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???  (Read 753 times)

nielsenammo

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2017, 09:51:33 AM »
I won't try and predict if the design Bob has will work or not, you won't know until you test it.  I will say that with my swage equipment I can make any base of the bullet as I want.  If you look through my catalog you will not see a hollow base bullet available and it is not because I don't want to offer it.  I have never been able to get good results with any hollow base bullet I have tried.  Dish base which is very shallow is some cases has helped to balance some bullets.

If you look at Mike's offering he has a hollow base slug but it also has a massive hollow nose to balance it out (it looks like a small nose but the cavity is thin walled and mostly hollow).  I went down this road a few years ago and realized trying to compare a bullet and pellet is not going to happen.  The wasp waist pellet is stabilized differently than a bullet.

The next part of this venture is to consider that a hollow base bullet has a lower BC than a flat base bullet so you are going the wrong direction as far as efficiency.  You also will not be able to hollow point this mold if it has a hollow base because one end must be flat, it requires a swage bullet to hollow out both ends.  Hunting is the number one use for slugs and I would much rather have a hollow point than a hollow base.

You will find that sizing is the main issue most people have in finding a slug.  I believe this bullet design is going to have the same problem, if it works, the nose will have to be sized correctly.

As far a filling out we tried something to see if a slug fills the rifling or not.  I have a custom barrel by TJ that is .250 with a 1:18 twist.  I sized a bullet down to .248 and used it to slug the barrel.  After pushing the slug through the barrel it measured .250 just like a .251 bullet did.  This tells me the bullet is going to fill out the rifling and seal while pushed down the barrel when fired.  I don't believe you need a skirt to fill the rifling.  I think it needs to be sized correctly for the barrel so it fills the barrel evenly from around the bullet.

Just sharing some findings from someone who shoots a lot of different slug styles every week.  Take it for what it is worth - probably not much.

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rsterne

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2017, 09:55:50 PM »
Nick, I really appreciate your input, your experience is invaluable, IMO.... There is indeed a lot to ponder before trying such a venture....

Bob
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oldpro

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2017, 10:58:53 AM »
 Its worth looking into for sure and Im game. Nick could you help with some dimensions or sizing for the test? If we can get this to work Id love to get you to swage up a bunch of these as I have no love for casting myself and would prefer to just buy them. Hopefully there is a happy medium that will work. 
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bnowlin

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2017, 12:04:26 PM »
I'D hate to see you cast yourself too :D
Bobn

Alan

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2017, 02:15:23 PM »
Read that as TYPECAST, Bob.
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I have an Omega compressor. If you're a fellow Guild member, and you pass through Roswell, NM, I'll fill your portable tank as a courtesy.

nielsenammo

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2017, 05:19:12 PM »
The size is specific to the gun.  Most 25 caliber barrels will shoot .250 well.  It can be .250-.253 for the majority of the guns out there.

Not something I can swage unless it is something I have tooling for.  To buy a swage die set up for this experiment you are talking around $500-600 for something that may not work.  Believe me, I have several of them that don't work and that is what it cost me to find out for each one.

If you mean casting them, a totally different process, it would be easier for someone to hand cast those for testing.  It takes too much to set up on my machines for making a few to test.  If I were going to buy a hand cast mold as a tester, I would buy something that drops .254 so you could size down for the different barrels.

Not sure who will make just one mold in 25 cal?  Someone with more time than me would be a better candidate for casting.  I would swage them but the cost is high and will take around 8 weeks for the tooling.

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rsterne

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2017, 10:11:46 PM »
NOE will make custom moulds, you just have to pay for the tooling, and then purchase however many moulds you need at their regular prices.... If you will allow Al to use the tool for others, I believe the tooling cost is $300, if you want it proprietary, it is higher.... You should ask Al for the details....

You can also ask Jared at Arsenal about a custom mould.... He did the .224 cal "Bowman" 47 gr. at my request, and added it to his catalogue, and I just paid for the mould I purchased, with no surcharge for tooling.... I don't know if that is his normal procedure or not.... Arsenal does not do HP or HB moulds, however....

Bob
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nielsenammo

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2017, 01:43:34 AM »
$300 plus the cost of the mold is nearly as much as buying as a swage die set.  Only thing with a swage die is you could then also change the weight to many combos so instead of one bullet you could make many in different weights.  You would just adjust the length of the bullet to increase or decrease the weight and length. 

For an additional $50-60 you can also get a different hollow base pin to change the hollow base cavity to make deeper/shallower or wider/thinner etc to change the amount of hollowing of the base.  Then with that pin you could adjust weight and make a whole new set of slugs in various weights to find a balance.  This is basically what I do when I get a new caliber or if I am trying to find a slug for a certain gun.  It takes a lot of time.
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Cast Bullets and Custom Swaged Pellets for Air Guns
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http://nielsenspecialtyammo.com
nielsenspecialtyammo@yahoo.com

rsterne

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2017, 02:25:24 PM »
It sounds to me like Nick already has a handle on everything needed to make what Travis suggested.... a slug that shoots like a pellet, and can even be varied in weight.... There is little point in trying to reinvent the wheel, IMO....

Bob
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nielsenammo

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2017, 05:04:40 PM »
I don't have a die that is shaped like what was drawn up.  The dies I have are shaped like what is on my site.  I do have a round nose die that shot terrible (one of my $500 dies that sits idle).

The only thing I can make to come close would be a slug with a 90 degree step between the nose and the body.  Basically a semi-wadcutter with either a 3/4 or 1E nose and no hollow point.  In order to make what you have in the diagram a die would have to be made.
  • La Verne, CA
Cast Bullets and Custom Swaged Pellets for Air Guns
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http://nielsenspecialtyammo.com
nielsenspecialtyammo@yahoo.com

rsterne

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2017, 04:16:06 PM »
Sorry if I confused things, Nick.... I realize you can't swage a bullet with even a slightly smaller center section.... What I meant is that you already have developed slugs that shoot at least as well as pellets.... so there is no point in reinventing the wheel.... It already exists, and is available at NSA.... in multiple weights, no less.... I am not being facetious, or sarcastic here.... I genuinely mean what I am saying.... If guys want slugs that shoot accurately, but with a far better BC than pellet.... PLEASE give Nick at NSA a call.... You won't be disappointed....

Bob
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 10:16:38 AM by rsterne »
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oldpro

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2017, 10:29:29 AM »
 Id like to continue on with this hybrid bullet what do we need to do next?
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rsterne

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Re: Hybrid pellet/bullets possible???
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2017, 01:11:55 PM »
Realistically, Travis, I would suggest that you get a selection of Nick's swaged slugs and try them.... If you want to pursue something I design the process may be longer and success questionable.... Give me a call to discuss it....

Bob
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