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Author Topic: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !  (Read 392 times)

rsterne

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BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« on: August 28, 2017, 09:45:20 AM »
I just purchased one of these from AliExpress.... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BSA-TMD-4-14X44-FFP-Hunting-Riflescope-First-Focal-Plane-Glass-Mil-Dot-Reticle-Tactical-Optics/32821284918.html

They are on sale for the next few days for $104 US including shipping.... and come compete with sunshade, covers, and your choice of dovetail or weaver rings.... There is a nearly identical model with a different reticle, which you can find on Ali by using the "Find Similar" feature, available from several suppliers, at slightly higher cost....

Bob
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 09:48:10 AM by rsterne »


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bnowlin

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 10:54:56 AM »
Wow Bob are they real BSA?
Bobn

steveoh

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 11:37:46 AM »
There was a $4 off coupon I was able to apply.  $100.24.  8)

Now, fingers crossed my credit card doesn't get compromised, and I get a genuine BSA Scope.  :o
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Alan

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 11:39:27 AM »
We all need to recognize the fact, that almost everything which comes out of China is multiple-brand marketed. I have one of these, but it's labeled as a Hammers. I suspect besides these two brands, there are several others in both this marketplace, and the rest of the world. In any case, the price is right!
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Martin

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 11:40:52 AM »
Midway has them at 109 and free shipping.  I have this scope and love it.  Getting 2 more, maybe three.
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rsterne

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 11:48:22 AM »
If the price was half what Midway want, or less, then I would suspect a Counterfeit.... However, I think in this case the scope is being sold under more than one "brand name" and this BSA is just as genuine as any other.... with all of them made in China, at the same factory....

Midway won't sell to Canada (can't have any Optics leaving the USA, might go to a Terrorist).... and the one from AliExpress comes with a Sunshade, Covers, and Rings (your choice of Dovetail or Weaver).... so I figured it was worth a chance.... This will be my first FFP Scope, I'll see if I like it or not....  8)

Bob
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bnowlin

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 12:20:36 PM »
If the price was half what Midway want, or less, then I would suspect a Counterfeit.... However, I think in this case the scope is being sold under more than one "brand name" and this BSA is just as genuine as any other.... with all of them made in China, at the same factory....

Midway won't sell to Canada (can't have any Optics leaving the USA, might go to a Terrorist).... and the one from AliExpress comes with a Sunshade, Covers, and Rings (your choice of Dovetail or Weaver).... so I figured it was worth a chance.... This will be my first FFP Scope, I'll see if I like it or not....  8)

Bob

That's just perfect for you then huh Bob
Bobn
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 12:24:07 PM by bnowlin »

rsterne

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 12:57:09 PM »
Hope so!....

Bob
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bnowlin

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2017, 01:06:35 PM »
Dumb question what is FFP  and mil-mil  I know it's first Focal but what does that mean?
Bobn

Martin

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2017, 01:27:15 PM »
It means the distance between the lines is always the same.  Really, you need to go look at one.  It is very different fron second focal plane scopes.  At first i wasnt sure if i liked it but after shooting one for a while i like it fine.  I still have 20 SFP scopes and they are fine but any new ones i get will be 2FP.
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steveoh

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2017, 01:38:36 PM »
Wife is gonna kill me. I also ordered a slightly used SWFA 10x42 Scope. I somehow ended up with more rifles than scopes. So what's a fellow to do?  Wanted to try something else than Leapers, which I have 6 of... 
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rsterne

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2017, 01:50:33 PM »
FFP is First Focal Plane.... The image of the target in a scope is formed in two places, once by the Objective lense (converging at the first focal plane), and again by the Erector lenses (converging at the second focal plane).... The eyepiece then looks at that second image, making the light rays parallel again for your eye to use properly.... Without the Erector lenses, the image formed by the eyepiece would be inverted, like an Astronomical Telescope is.... In a fixed power scope, it doesn't matter where the reticle is, at the first or second FP.... However, in a variable power (zoom) scope, the image at the second focal point changes in size as you zoom the magnification.... Since the reticle is fixed in physical size, in a second focal plane scope, the image changes size, relative to the reticle, which causes the Mil-Dots to subtend a different dimension on the image, depending on the magnification.... For example, in a 5-15 X scope, if the Mil-Dots are calibrated to 10X, and they are 3.6" apart at 100 yards at that power.... at 5X they will be 7.2" apart.... and at 15X just 2.4" apart.... 

In a FFP scope, the reticle is placed where the first image is formed by the objective lense, and so becomes "part" of that image.... I don't think this can be done with a scope with an Adjustable Objective (AO), I believe all FFP scopes either have no parallax adjustment (fixed focus) or are side focus designs.... When the Erector lenses are zoomed to change the magnification, the reticle zooms right along with the image.... When you look through an FFP scope, and zoom the image, the reticle appears to get larger and smaller, but the MilDots stay the same distance apart, RELATIVE TO THE IMAGE.... so they always subtend 3.6" of the target, regardless of the magnification.... So much for FFP, now what is "Mil-Mil" ?....

First of all, you need to know that a "Mil-Dot" means that the dots on the reticle are 1 "milliradian" apart.... That is 1 yard at 1000 yards (the 1/1000 is where the "milli" prefix comes from).... That means 1 "Mil" is an angle subtending 3.6" at 100 yards.... Most scopes use 1/4 MOA (minute of angle) clicks on the turrets to adjust the POI (some are 1/8 MOA).... Some scopes use 1/4" (or 1/8") clicks.... Since 1 MOA at 100 yds. is just over 1", each click is about 1/4" (or 1/8", respectively).... A scope that is "Mil-Mil" means that each click of the turret is (typically) 1/10 of a Mil-Dot.... in other words the clicks on the turret are in the same system of units as the dots in the reticle (milliradians).... The adjustment in (most) Mil-Mil scopes are therefore slightly coarser than in a conventional "Mil-MOA" (or "Mil-Inch")scope, because 1/10 Mil-Dot is actually 0.36" at 100 yards.... however, there are (in theory) exactly 10 clicks per Mil-Dot, which makes it easy for sighting in, or adjusting your POI using clicks.... With a scope where the turrets are calibrated in MOA (inches), there are about 13.6 (or 14.4) clicks per Mil-Dot.... pretty inconvenient if you are moving the turrets between targets.... However, if you only use the turrets to sight in, and then use the Mil-Dots for holdover.... there is no PRACTICAL difference, and in fact 1/4 MOA clicks are a finer adjustment than 1/10 Mil clicks....   ::)

Bob
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 02:05:46 PM by rsterne »
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bnowlin

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2017, 02:16:07 PM »
Thx for the explanations Bob,  So bottom line that would be a good scope for some one who shoots mostly 59 yds but need 150 at times really fast so what would the side focus do for you, just change your distance. or what.  Should I get it or what?  They really look good
I have been using UTG/leapers all this time.
Bobn

rsterne

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2017, 02:39:00 PM »
The side focus does the same thing as an adjustable objective (front focus), it is arguably easier to use, because it is (usually) easier to turn, and you can see the range marks along the side of the scope, without lifting your head.... instead of having to drop the gun down and look at the top of the scope to see them.... The focus (AO of side) has nothing to do with the bullet impact point, only the clarity of the target image, and the related parallax error that an out-of-focus image causes....

In both types of scope, there are two basic systems for shooting at long range.... You can either use the Mil-Dots to "holdover" the target for those occasional long shots.... OR you can dial the upper turret to move the crosshairs to allow for the extra drop.... For example, going from 59 yds. to 150 yds. might mean the pellet is dropping an additional 45".... At 150 yards, that is 10 Mil-Dots or 28.7 MOA.... Assuming your reticle is accurately calibrated at the magnification you are using, you would have to either hold 10 Mil-Dots high (most scopes don't have that many).... OR you could rotate the top turret to lower the crosshairs (raising the muzzle).... With a Mil-Mil scope, that would take 100 clicks.... With a 1/4 MOA turret, it would be about 136 clicks, and with a 1/4" turret, about 144 clicks.... The problem with using clicks is that very few scopes will return to exactly the same place when you move the turrets, so if you go "up" 100 clicks, and then back "down" 100 clicks you will most likely not be back on target at your 59 yards.... I avoid moving the turrets for anything except sighting in, just for that reason....

Bob
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bnowlin

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Re: BSA 4-14 x 44 / 30mm tube / FFP / Mil-Mil Scope on Sale !
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2017, 02:49:09 PM »
Thx Bob appreciate it,  Think Ill order one
Bobn