Author Topic: Blood and Gore  (Read 522 times)

steveoh

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Blood and Gore
« on: October 15, 2018, 11:06:11 AM »
I was reading a series of Tweets on Twitter where hunters were talking about other hunters posting extremely gory images of a freshly shot fox. They were suggesting that for public consumption a gory image of a critter turns off too many people, and that we as hunters should avoid the gore, and flip the animal over or just avoid posting the images.

Of course this made me think of my own images of rats missing half a head, etc.

There are images of big game animals shot for the sake of killing, with grinning celebrities that really disturb me. There's a lack of respect for the animal and the hunt that makes me less than happy. To see a beautiful critter like a Leopard, Giraffe, Elephant, etc turns my guts. I suppose it's because so many of these animals are endanger of becoming extinct.

And yet, I shoot the rats to keep them out of my house. I'd happily shoot deer and other critters for the table, and not feel the same way.

Thoughts?


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Alan

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Re: Blood and Gore
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2018, 11:28:47 AM »
I've already posted my thoughts on this issue, and it is why I don't take photos and movies of kills. Those I do (occasionally) post, are an effort on my part to explain some facet of the hobby.

Probably the most egregious are the movies of prairie dogs hit with all matter of high-velocity cartridges, replete with a laughing dialog. Yet, during all of the issues surrounding YouTube's pulling of airgun videos, a ton of the aforementioned remained. YouTube isn't an even playing field, but then again, neither is life.
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steveoh

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Re: Blood and Gore
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2018, 05:48:28 PM »
I've already posted my thoughts on this issue, and it is why I don't take photos and movies of kills. Those I do (occasionally) post, are an effort on my part to explain some facet of the hobby.

Probably the most egregious are the movies of prairie dogs hit with all matter of high-velocity cartridges, replete with a laughing dialog. Yet, during all of the issues surrounding YouTube's pulling of airgun videos, a ton of the aforementioned remained. YouTube isn't an even playing field, but then again, neither is life.

I'm guilty of posting the gory images of mice and rats. Sometimes I think I should probably not do that. After all they were living creatures, and taking any life shouldn't be made light of. I follow Manny's Pig Hunts over at GTA, and though he often does a self portrait of himself with the dead pig, he's never smiling. Someone asked him about it, and he responded something along the lines, that it's serious business to take a life, and we shouldn't make light of it.  I think I agree. All the death last month of my dog, kitten and cat kinda made me rethink this. Still am going to hunt the rats, because I want to keep them out of the house. But I don't think I've once laughed after killing one.

It doesn't look good to non-hunters either. No sense in going out of one's way to offend people.

Something to chew on.
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Steelhead

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Re: Blood and Gore
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 05:27:25 AM »
Interesting take on Manny's non-smiling reasons; I have a lot of respect for that. As far as gore goes, I say hogwash. The same person that will whine and bitch about that is more than likely buying first person shooter video games which are filled with violence and gore, watching horror movies, and paying for MMA fights on pay-per-view.

I'm not tip toeing around anymore and being ashamed of being a hunter, especially here in NorCal. I think that Manny's point is well made; respect for taking a life. You don't need to laugh and yuck it up (save that for playing World of Warcraft) when killing creatures. That being said there's an instinct at work here deep in the cranial recesses of being a hunter/provider, especially in men. The thrill of the hunt and the joy of making the kill be cannot be denied. It may be primal, but it exists. Just like little boys rough house and play 'violent' games like cops and robbers and little girls squeal and scream like damsels in distress every five seconds and need to be 'saved'. It's not popular nor politically correct, but it IS fact. To deny is just ignorant.

If it disturbs you, don't look. This isn't A Clockwork Orange, nobody's pinning your eyes open and forcing you. On the same note hunters have the responsibility to not accentuate the gore purely for (false) bravado or shock factor.
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steveoh

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Re: Blood and Gore
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2018, 07:16:49 AM »
Well said Kevin.

There’s a long tradition of hunters posing with their kill, whether it is critters or fish, and in military, your human quarry. I think the military frowns on that however. 

I certainly photograph my fish catches, and the critters I kill, including the rabbits I slaughtered. I photographed them not to document the gore, or laugh at their plight. I suppose the reasons vary. One rabbit I photographed was incredibly striking as I cut from top to bottom exposing all its internal organs. Make that beautiful. I will say killing a rabbit with your bare hands is very different than sitting behind a scope. I have certain regrets about that.

We kill chickens here by hand and these are critters the kids have named. There is no way I’d pose with one of their bodies after the deed.

I don’t apologize for hunting. I think that hunting is a much more honest way of killing, butchering, cooking and consuming meat. Modern folks buy their meat skinless, boneless, wrapped in plastic, in an environment void of how that critter lived. There is no evidence of what that meat was as an animal. I like ethnic old school butcher shops because a chicken probably still has its head attached. This meat was a chicken. My kids know this. They see it in our urban farm of sorts.

Last year I bought Lamb and Pork from a couple who have a small farm in the foothills. They both have city jobs but do the farm thing on the side. I saw pictures of the pig and sheep they slaughtered. They had names. I also saw videos of them. And now there are
pieces and parts of them in my freezer. This is a connection most folks don’t have with the critters they eat.

The stalk, the hunt and the kill is thrilling, I have to admit. I get it even shooting rats. When someone gets all weepy I explain that it’s in our dna. How many thousands of years did men lie in wait for that deer, rabbit, elk, Buffalo, duck, etc? I am a caveman damnit.

Where am I going with this? Hell I forgot.

Oh gore. It is the by product of killing.

First Albacore Tuna I caught got it’s throat cut to bleed it out. The blood sprayed me, the deck, my fishing buddies, everything. The fight, the kill,  was exhilarating. I beat on my chest and whooped, and someone smeared tuna blood on both of sides of my face. That day I was a hunter and loved every minute of it. There is something so primal about it. 

Interesting take on Manny's non-smiling reasons; I have a lot of respect for that. As far as gore goes, I say hogwash. The same person that will whine and bitch about that is more than likely buying first person shooter video games which are filled with violence and gore, watching horror movies, and paying for MMA fights on pay-per-view.

I'm not tip toeing around anymore and being ashamed of being a hunter, especially here in NorCal. I think that Manny's point is well made; respect for taking a life. You don't need to laugh and yuck it up (save that for playing World of Warcraft) when killing creatures. That being said there's an instinct at work here deep in the cranial recesses of being a hunter/provider, especially in men. The thrill of the hunt and the joy of making the kill be cannot be denied. It may be primal, but it exists. Just like little boys rough house and play 'violent' games like cops and robbers and little girls squeal and scream like damsels in distress every five seconds and need to be 'saved'. It's not popular nor politically correct, but it IS fact. To deny is just ignorant.

If it disturbs you, don't look. This isn't A Clockwork Orange, nobody's pinning your eyes open and forcing you. On the same note hunters have the responsibility to not accentuate the gore purely for (false) bravado or shock factor.
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Alan

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Re: Blood and Gore
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2018, 02:59:00 PM »
John Q Public, as well as John & Jane Doe, would be appalled if they ever went to a slaughterhouse, and got to see EVERYTHING that went on. It wasn't much different for me at about age 7, when I watched my uncle Herb slaughter a hind leg, strung-up pig, by first cutting its throat! The blood was collected, and used to make blood sausage, the scrapes to make headcheese and scrapple, and the skin deep fried for use as beer snacks. Nothing was wasted! Gruesome? Perhaps. But those operations are common in every slaughter house. The difference is, as I alluded to above, not many eaters of those goodies, ever get to see the real deal! It is, by any description, a manner of degrees.

Almost in a previous life (over 50 years ago), I played cop. Although I was the chief communications officer, I did see my share of man's inhumanity to man! Is seeing some poor slob mangled in a head-on, 75 mph crash any gorier than watching a pig get slaughtered? I think not.

We all have a comfort level. Mine isn't as dainty as most, because I've been the first responder in enough vehicle cases to harden my nerves like titanium. My wife, on the other hand, has a hard time listening to me tell her how many pigeons (flying rats?) I've shot.

As I said... It is a manner of degrees, and everyones' warm and fuzzy level is different.
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steveoh

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Re: Blood and Gore
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2018, 03:03:23 PM »
I sure like the fact that we can talk about this and not fuss.
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Steelhead

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Re: Blood and Gore
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2018, 03:59:36 PM »
Degrees, tolerance levels, and the like are a slippery slope, but it doesn't have to mean avoiding constructive dialogue. Nor does it necessitate debate. It's an important reality of the age we're living where a great deal of the population in the modern world has never killed anything, processed meat, or thought any further about the origins other than a wrapped package at Safeway.

When I was kid and showing cows and sheep at the fair, they took the grand champion market lambs, beef cows, chickens, pigs, etc. (not the breeding stock but the meat stock) and had them butchered and hung on site in a glass refrigeration unit. The public outcry was horrific, both from the exhibitors who unfortunately had to kiss BaaBaa goodbye until the saw him hanging from a hook skinless and cold a day later (I found this a little amusing, but it wasn't my lamb either)  But the general public? Oh my god...people puking everywhere, kids screaming...it was a shit show and that was in the late 70's. It's a foreign concept knowing that what they are eating was actually alive. I digress...

Even us as hunters have individual limits. Here are mine: I wouldn't kill an elephant/leopard/lion/dolphin/whale among many others. I've lost enough salmon and tackle that I'd really actually enjoy putting a bullet through the skull of a sea lion once in a while though. I like foxes too. This is just Steelhead's range, nothing more nothing less. Doesn't make me right and someone else wrong. Who's to say that I'm correct for killing a blacktail deer or a king salmon (do fish count in today's society or are they too insignificant of a life form to matter still?) but the people of the Faroe Islands are wrong for killing pilot whales in their annual grind (talk about gore...holy frijoles!)  It's all a matter of perspective, and it's important to realize and acknowledge that. Just because I wouldn't shoot bear or a deer over a bait station doesn't mean that because someone else does that it's not ethical.

This is why I was cautious about the conversation regarding the legalization of airguns for hunting big game. Patience, common sense, and flexibility is paramount to getting anything done. In a changing world these are very important issues and being fractured and divided amongst the ranks only sets us back as a group. No one of us knows more than all of us.

My retired fireman buddy just left after shooting what is going to be his new .25 Armada. Pushing 70 and still an avid outdoorsman...and a new PCP convert.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 04:02:16 PM by Steelhead »
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steveoh

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Re: Blood and Gore
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 09:31:07 AM »
Degrees, tolerance levels, and the like are a slippery slope, but it doesn't have to mean avoiding constructive dialogue. Nor does it necessitate debate. It's an important reality of the age we're living where a great deal of the population in the modern world has never killed anything, processed meat, or thought any further about the origins other than a wrapped package at Safeway.

When I was kid and showing cows and sheep at the fair, they took the grand champion market lambs, beef cows, chickens, pigs, etc. (not the breeding stock but the meat stock) and had them butchered and hung on site in a glass refrigeration unit. The public outcry was horrific, both from the exhibitors who unfortunately had to kiss BaaBaa goodbye until the saw him hanging from a hook skinless and cold a day later (I found this a little amusing, but it wasn't my lamb either)  But the general public? Oh my god...people puking everywhere, kids screaming...it was a shit show and that was in the late 70's. It's a foreign concept knowing that what they are eating was actually alive. I digress...

Even us as hunters have individual limits. Here are mine: I wouldn't kill an elephant/leopard/lion/dolphin/whale among many others. I've lost enough salmon and tackle that I'd really actually enjoy putting a bullet through the skull of a sea lion once in a while though. I like foxes too. This is just Steelhead's range, nothing more nothing less. Doesn't make me right and someone else wrong. Who's to say that I'm correct for killing a blacktail deer or a king salmon (do fish count in today's society or are they too insignificant of a life form to matter still?) but the people of the Faroe Islands are wrong for killing pilot whales in their annual grind (talk about gore...holy frijoles!)  It's all a matter of perspective, and it's important to realize and acknowledge that. Just because I wouldn't shoot bear or a deer over a bait station doesn't mean that because someone else does that it's not ethical.

This is why I was cautious about the conversation regarding the legalization of airguns for hunting big game. Patience, common sense, and flexibility is paramount to getting anything done. In a changing world these are very important issues and being fractured and divided amongst the ranks only sets us back as a group. No one of us knows more than all of us.

My retired fireman buddy just left after shooting what is going to be his new .25 Armada. Pushing 70 and still an avid outdoorsman...and a new PCP convert.

Well said Kevin.  Congrats to your retired fireman buddy.
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