Author Topic: Am I the only one who....  (Read 241 times)

Alan

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Am I the only one who....
« on: May 14, 2019, 07:58:04 AM »
This is an excerpt from a Crosman email advertising their "Field Trials".

Hunter Division
In the Hunter Division your air rifle may not exceed 20 fpe from the muzzle. No jacket or harnesses are allowed, You can you any optic up to 16 power and may use a bipod. also, any form of seat without back or arms may be used.


I don't know why this is called "Hunter Division". Other than a HOSP, what animal could you humanly hunt with an airgun with just 20 FPE?


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Alan

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rsterne

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2019, 08:05:11 AM »
I use a 20 FPE PCP Carbine for Grouse.... It has accounted for over 100 over the last few years.... I previously used a 12 FPE gun, but the heavier pellets I now use (18 gr. instead of 14) at 700 fps instead of 600 have a greater ability to knock them off their feet.... The 12 FPE gun killed them just as dead, but I lost more due to them flapping over a cliff during the cadaveric spasms common to birds taken with a headshot.... My ranges average 30 yards on Ruffies closer to 40 on Blues.... never over 50....

The British have taken thousands of birds and rabbits with 12 FPE airguns….  ;)

Bob
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Gerard

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2019, 12:48:56 PM »
What I've been told is that HFT is limited to 20fpe because too much over that power and the standard knock-down targets become damaged too quickly - a costly maintenance/replacement schedule for the hosts resulting. It's about keeping targets working and costs down. This seems to be one of the best justifications for 3-speed rifles such as FX and Brocock and some others have been putting out. Dial it down to middle velocity (or low, depending on the model) to stay under the 20fpe limit, then back up to full power for small game. Considering the damage I've still seen on targets at 20fpe I'm puzzled that they don't lower it to 12fpe, especially in light of the many, many pesting hunters in the UK shooting under that limit, as Bob says. At least in .177", 12fpe is plenty for HFT distances with modest holdover at the furthest targets.
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Alan

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2019, 02:54:11 PM »
Bob has a point to be sure. In my case, the primary targets are pigeons and collared doves. The average distance to target is about 65 yards. Yes, I do get one occasionally at say 10 yards, but once you hunt an area everyday for months (years really), the birds get wise and the distances get greater.

Just today, I shot 7 pigeons. All were well placed, solid shots, yet 3 flew away. I shot a jack at about 30 yards, and he jumped nearly 4 feet in the air, yet ran. The second, and last (!) shot was nearly 90 yards. The pellets are 25.39 grain JSB Exacts, at 875 FPS. That is about 43 FPE. This would indicate the need for something like a PolyMag. Unfortunately, they don't group well past 50 yards, and personally, I can't tell if they dispatch game any better.

I'm waiting for the .25 caliber Hades, and I will try them. But if they can't group past 50 yards, I'll stick with what I have.
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Alan

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steveoh

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2019, 03:32:40 PM »
Bob has a point to be sure. In my case, the primary targets are pigeons and collared doves. The average distance to target is about 65 yards. Yes, I do get one occasionally at say 10 yards, but once you hunt an area everyday for months (years really), the birds get wise and the distances get greater.

Just today, I shot 7 pigeons. All were well placed, solid shots, yet 3 flew away. I shot a jack at about 30 yards, and he jumped nearly 4 feet in the air, yet ran. The second, and last (!) shot was nearly 90 yards. The pellets are 25.39 grain JSB Exacts, at 875 FPS. That is about 43 FPE. This would indicate the need for something like a PolyMag. Unfortunately, they don't group well past 50 yards, and personally, I can't tell if they dispatch game any better.

I'm waiting for the .25 caliber Hades, and I will try them. But if they can't group past 50 yards, I'll stick with what I have.

I for one would be happy as a pig in mud to hunt rats with my .58 Quackenbush rifle. You'd hear me giggling as I splatted them. Ask Steelhead how much I giggle when I break something.  :o
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Alan

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2019, 04:18:37 PM »
Word has it, that you break silence all too often!! One has to assume that's true?? (Do you eat beans??)

This probably isn't he best forum to do this on...

I would bet that no member here, shoots are much as I do. Just today, I went through 57 pellets (yes I count them!). The 9 misses I had, I attribute to not measuring the distance with my laser range finder. In defense, I'm trying to learn to use the mil dots to estimate the distance, rather than using a crutch (LRF). But the real story is...

My .25 caliber, W.A.R. Cobra has had over 20,000 round shot through it. It won't be 4 years old, until November 2019. Sometimes, on a bad day, it's just a few rounds. Perhaps less than 10. On a good day, the number might be 150 rounds. That is almost three (air tank) refills. This, in fact, is why I ordered a 500 cc tank to replace the 350 cc tank shipped with the gun.

Lord help me, I really love shooting pigeons!
  • Roswell, New Mexico
Alan

I have an Omega compressor. If you're a fellow Guild member, and you pass through Roswell, NM, I'll fill your portable tank as a courtesy.

rsterne

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2019, 07:28:50 PM »
Birds are notoriously hard to kill, IMO, unless it's a head shot.... Their feathered armour is extremely effective on body shots, and I see a lot of fly-aways with Grouse not shot in the head.... I have even seen a few head shots where they were dead on take-off (both eyes and a large section of skull missing)…. but the way their central nervous system is spread out over the upper spinal cord, they can fly when shot like that until they bleed out.... I have had a few "helicopter" straight up in a spiral to 60-70 feet, trailing blood the whole way, until they fold like a cheap tent and crash back to earth (one nearly hit my wife on the way down)….

Rabbits can be equally entertaining, DRT shots through the brain and the back legs fire several times, launching the animal high into the air multiple times before collapsing.... Ground Squirrels when head shot usually go into caderveric spasms, and despite missing most of their grey matter make their holes.... On both of these a good heart shot usually anchors them in place, but miss the heart and drill both lungs and you will seldom recover them.... This doesn't mean you made a poor shot, as the animal expires very quickly.... and in the case of a brain shot is dead instantly, despite all the flipping around.... It's just natures way of survival, just strange it can take place in an animal that is actually dead....

I will agree with the fact that FPE above and beyond what it needed for a humane death has a greater chance of anchoring the game.... A 50 gr. HP at 3000 fps from a Rem. 222 leaves little of a GS left to make the hole.... Of course on a Grouse or Rabbit, unless it's a head shot, there is little left to eat, either....  ::)

Bob
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 07:31:40 PM by rsterne »
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Alan

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 04:43:03 AM »
Very true. Speaking of eating...

I don't eat pigeons, but the hawks and vultures do. Collared doves are good eating, but it takes about 6 to make a meal. And, they're a mess to clean. Blue grouse? We have them here (no closed season), but I give them a pass.
  • Roswell, New Mexico
Alan

I have an Omega compressor. If you're a fellow Guild member, and you pass through Roswell, NM, I'll fill your portable tank as a courtesy.

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2019, 08:29:56 AM »
Blues are delicious.... IMO they taste more like turkey than chicken.... They are large birds, twice the weight of an average Ruffed Grouse....



The meat on a mature male is darker in colour, nearly blue, which may be the reason for the name.... That was a large female.... It's a good sized meal.... and they are easy to clean by flipping them over, standing on the wings and pulling up on the feet.... You end up with a skinned, clean breast, as shown.... There isn't enough meat on the rest of the bird to worry about....

Bob
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nervoustrigger

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2019, 09:30:50 AM »
Bob, that is a beautiful picture!  Wow, it looks just like a mourning dove breast except well over 10 times the size.  One of my favorite meals is shishkabobs with mourning dove breast wrapped in bacon, with bell pepper, onions, and mushrooms.  I sure wish we had more collared dove around here because they are substantially larger and have no restricted season or bag limits.  Unfortunately I have only ever seen one in my usual hunting areas, and the trusty QB didn't disappoint with a 56 yard shot


How excited I was to pull this tasty morsel of meat


But it utterly pales in comparison to your grouse.

Anyway, as far as what sort of hunting can be humanely performed with 20fpe, clearly nothing larger than a gray squirrel.

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rsterne

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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2019, 11:25:41 AM »
Cadeveric spasms are not a pretty sight.... but IMO that was as humane as a double lung shot with a .22LR.... I would certainly not take that shot with a 20 FPE rifle, however....

Bob
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Re: Am I the only one who....
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2019, 05:02:08 PM »
He was dead as soon as the pellet entered his skull. His nerves just did not stop as quickly.
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