Author Topic: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******  (Read 6105 times)

bnowlin

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2016, 07:29:54 PM »
You can get a new style Gen one trigger for 53 bucks at Archer air guns. and other parts.
Bob

ShakySarge

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2016, 05:08:06 AM »
Sounds pretty pricey Bob. I am going to talk to a CNC company and see what it would cost to do a bulk run on about 200 high tensile steel Gen II sears.

Matt
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Dairyboy

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2016, 06:14:38 AM »
Good to know I'll hafta check mine both out
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bnowlin

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2016, 07:23:28 AM »
Sounds pretty pricey Bob. I am going to talk to a CNC company and see what it would cost to do a bulk run on about 200 high tensile steel Gen II sears.

Matt

Yea but you get them in 3 or 3 days and he has screw sets and other good stuff.  Now it's gen one part but none of those stupid little spacers, the body is like gen 2
Bob

rsterne

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2016, 08:18:39 AM »
Isn't the Gen2 trigger completely different.... Different frame length different hole locations, and different sear location?.... I understand they are NOT compatible....

Bob
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sixshootertexan

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2016, 08:27:09 AM »
Isn't the Gen2 trigger completely different.... Different frame length different hole locations, and different sear location?.... I understand they are NOT compatible....

Bob

yup Gen1 is near the pivot point while the Gen11 is towards the end of the shear.

Borrowed this pic from Airgunlab.


Found another pic.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 08:30:29 AM by sixshootertexan »
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rsterne

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2016, 09:04:15 AM »
Measuring from those photos, the Gen 2 sear will have about 4 times the load on the end that sits on the drop mechanism, with the same hammer load.... Whereas the Gen 1 triggers were prone to breaking if installed incorrectly, the Gen 2 design would be more likely to overstress the exact point where they are failing, and knock out a chunk, rather than break the whole sear.... When overstressed, a part will fail at its weakest point....

I still think there is every chance that the Gen 2 sears that are having problems may have been in trigger groups that have been removed and reinstalled without pulling the trigger.... This puts the top of the sear up against the bottom of the hammer, with the trigger in the cocked position, and when you tighten the screws, something has to give.... In the Gen 1, the sear breaks.... In the Gen 2, that MAY be the cause of it knocking off that corner.... JMO....

Bob
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sixshootertexan

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2016, 09:14:49 AM »
What does the bottom shear look like? Is the corner rounded on it? Both are made from the same material.
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bnowlin

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2016, 09:22:38 AM »
Measuring from those photos, the Gen 2 sear will have about 4 times the load on the end that sits on the drop mechanism, with the same hammer load.... Whereas the Gen 1 triggers were prone to breaking if installed incorrectly, the Gen 2 design would be more likely to overstress the exact point where they are failing, and knock out a chunk, rather than break the whole sear.... When overstressed, a part will fail at its weakest point....

I still think there is every chance that the Gen 2 sears that are having problems may have been in trigger groups that have been removed and reinstalled without pulling the trigger.... This puts the top of the sear up against the bottom of the hammer, with the trigger in the cocked position, and when you tighten the screws, something has to give.... In the Gen 1, the sear breaks.... In the Gen 2, that MAY be the cause of it knocking off that corner.... JMO....

Bob


Bob the new style Gen 1 has a plate to hold the sear down until or when installed and has no spacers, it is not like the gen2 of course but spacers are built into the top plate like the gen2 except for the lawyer spring if removed needs a spacer of some sort.
The other Bob

rsterne

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2016, 09:27:50 AM »
Are you saying that it is now impossible to break the sears when installing the trigger, that you don't need to pull the trigger to allow it to drop?.... If so, that is an excellent response from Crosman to a nagging problem caused by improper installation.... There have been a LOT of broken Gen 1 sears over the years.... I know, because the first time I installed an MRod trigger, I broke the sear....  ::)

Bob
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bnowlin

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2016, 09:38:45 AM »
Bob,
Wouldn't you say that nothing is impossible but maybe improbable unless the wrong person gets hold of it. I just got three from Archer and the were all built like that.  The late and spring hold the sear all the way inside the trigger body.  He says he gets his parts from Crosman.
Bob

rsterne

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2016, 09:42:54 AM »
So when you go to install the trigger, you can just bolt it to the bottom of the tube, without having to pull the trigger?.... How does the sear, which must sit above the inside of the tube, not press against the hammer on installation if it's in its forward position?.... What allows it to drop down, out of the way of the hammer, without pulling the trigger, and yet catch the hammer when the gun is cocked?.... I must be missing something here.... I have two types of Gen 1 triggers here, one with the extended side plate, and both can have the sear catch the drop mechanism if forward....

Bob
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 09:47:53 AM by rsterne »
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bnowlin

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2016, 09:56:24 AM »
Dang Bob you got me wondering as usual.  I will take one off and look after we get back from town.  I'm getting old and just don't remember. I would think tho that you would have to pull the trigger so the sear will fall on in.  As I believe that is the way mine came. with the sear already down and the group was wrapped in plastic.
Bob

bnowlin

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2016, 10:27:57 AM »
OK guys my gen 2 sear is nice and shiny and bright silver and sharp like steel or stainless steel.  no problem there that I can see.  I bought one of the first guns from PA.  Maybe crosman has changed suppliers

rsterne

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Re: ******SAFETY WARNING FOR GEN2 Mrod******
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2016, 10:47:39 AM »
I should perhaps be very clear on what I mean.... The Gen 1 sear has two positions (and I assume the Gen 2 is the same).... When pushed to the rear, as happens when you cock the gun, it can drop down behind the lever that releases it on firing, and if it is in that position when installed, no damage occurs.... However, if it is in the front position, which is where it is when cocked, it is sitting on top of the drop mechanism, and if you bolt it to the gun like that, when you tighten the screws, you WILL break the sear.... I know, because it happened to me, and I have seen MANY reports of this happening to others.... The solution is to pull the trigger while you tighten the screws, and then it will drop down out of the way of the hammer when you install it....

It was suggested by MichaelM on the GTA that perhaps the damage to the Gen 2 sears that started this thread could have been caused during installation of the trigger group onto the tube, and I agree.... That is the only point I am trying to make, is that this damage MAY be due to the sear hitting the hammer on installation, and the extreme load applied when the screws are tightened is chipping that edge, which then makes the trigger unsafe.... In other words, because of the redesign of the sear on the Gen 2, instead of the sear breaking in half, it chips that critical edge.... Just a thought, but that COULD be the culprit here.... This does not mean people shouldn't take the careful approach and inspect their sear.... but it does mean those results should be documented, particularly in guns where they have never been apart since leaving Crosman.... It also means that anyone removing the trigger group from an MRod should pull the trigger while reinstalling it, to prevent sear breakage or damage, IMO....

Bob
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